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Old 01-21-2013, 02:03 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TURNS101 View Post
Many race cars have drop spindles on them.
Which ones? Any miata specific?

For most of the mere mortals on this forum, the classes that they auto-x, TT, or race in either forbid drop spindles (SCCA) or punish those who decide to use them (NASA through their points system).

While there are certain classes that may allow them, those classes (EP, FP? ST3?, Mod classes in Auto-x?) are fairly high buck cars that very few people on this forum play with.

The reality remains that you can (and most do) build a miata to handle beautifully and competently without them. That's not to say they wouldn't be beneficial, for either street or track car.

Don't the '94R outer tie rods also help the suspension geometry on lowered cars? Most people choose not to run those because they are too expensive. I'd have to imagine those tie rods are lot cheaper then a set of custom drop spindles.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:15 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
For most of the mere mortals on this forum, the classes that they auto-x, TT, or race in either forbid drop spindles (SCCA) or punish those who decide to use them (NASA through their points system).

While there are certain classes that may allow them, those classes (EP, FP? ST3?, Mod classes in Auto-x?) are fairly high buck cars that very few people on this forum play with.

The reality remains that you can (and most do) build a miata to handle beautifully and competently without them. That's not to say they wouldn't be beneficial, for either street or track car.
+1. Not sure if NASA ST penalizes you, but PT definitely does. You can make a Miata on stock spindles and control arms handle better than 99.95% of cars.

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Don't the '94R outer tie rods also help the suspension geometry on lowered cars? Most people choose not to run those because they are too expensive. I'd have to imagine those tie rods are lot cheaper then a set of custom drop spindles.
Apples and oranges. The outer tie rods alleviate bumpsteer induced by excessive lowering. A properly designed drop spindle would account for this and allow you to run standard tie rod ends without worrying about it.
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:00 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Apples and oranges. The outer tie rods alleviate bumpsteer induced by excessive lowering. A properly designed drop spindle would account for this and allow you to run standard tie rod ends without worrying about it.
I know they are apples and oranges. That's why I used the ambiguous statement: "don't they help suspension geometry on lowered cars".

My point is, if 95% of the people on this board aren't willing to spend the $250 (or however much those tie rods are) for the tie rods, why would they want a set of $600-800++ custom drop spindles.

I also don't know about the NASA ST rules, I imagine there's someone on this board who would know though...

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Old 01-21-2013, 08:38 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
My point is, if 95% of the people on this board aren't willing to spend the $250 (or however much those tie rods are) for the tie rods, why would they want a set of $600-800++ custom drop spindles.
1. I bet more people run LE/R tie rod ends than you think
2. You can get similar benefit by shimming the steering rack up
3. I would bet that custom drop spindles on all 4 corners are significantly more than $800. Think double that.

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I also don't know about the NASA ST rules, I imagine there's someone on this board who would know though...


ST allows relocation of suspension mounting points in all classes with no penalty.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:18 PM   #25
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It depends on how much demand for them there is if there was demand for a few thousand you could almost justify casting them and likely get it down to around $800. If you were going to make a welded up set for yourself, after making jigs (you're going to want to make jigs for this), and having a shop do finish machining to the weldment (you're going to need this) I could see it coming out to around a grand. Now if you have access to CNC machines and want to make them out of aluminum billet, depeding on how big they are, you could do it for about 400 on all corners + whatever the spindles (the actual steel shaft that the bearing runs on in the front) are going to cost. But if you're at that level, you're making your own hubs and are going to run a completely different bearing setup, likely with a bearing similar to the miata rears on the front and hubs that look like the rears in the front. Man I wish I had the time and money to do this right now. Might have to re-apply to school for a part time MBA and do it one class at a time just to keep access to the shop, haha.

And to fact check myself, a set of two drop spindles for a truck from belltech ranges between 200 and 420 depending on the truck and the drop. So it might actually be possible for someone to come out with a set for $800 for 4.
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Old 01-22-2013, 12:47 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
I know they are apples and oranges. That's why I used the ambiguous statement: "don't they help suspension geometry on lowered cars".

My point is, if 95% of the people on this board aren't willing to spend the $250 (or however much those tie rods are) for the tie rods, why would they want a set of $600-800++ custom drop spindles.

I also don't know about the NASA ST rules, I imagine there's someone on this board who would know though...

?The LE tie rod ends are $46.84 each from Mazda. Not that expensive.

Bob
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:51 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
I know they are apples and oranges. That's why I used the ambiguous statement: "don't they help suspension geometry on lowered cars".

My point is, if 95% of the people on this board aren't willing to spend the $250 (or however much those tie rods are) for the tie rods, why would they want a set of $600-800++ custom drop spindles.

I also don't know about the NASA ST rules, I imagine there's someone on this board who would know though...

SCCA Solo Rules for Street Modified.

E. Suspension components are unrestricted as long as they use the
original attachment points. For the purposes of this rule, “suspension”
is defined as any item that is designed to move when a wheel
is deflected vertically. This includes shocks/struts, control arms,
steering knuckles, uprights, etc., but not tie rods, steering racks, and
subframes. In addition, shock absorber/strut upper mounts are to be
considered suspension components.

You can use drop spindles. Can't move your rack. The LE tie rod ends are acceptable as they were available as an option.

Bob
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:25 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
SCCA Solo Rules for Street Modified.

E. Suspension components are unrestricted as long as they use the
original attachment points. For the purposes of this rule, “suspension”
is defined as any item that is designed to move when a wheel
is deflected vertically. This includes shocks/struts, control arms,
steering knuckles, uprights, etc., but not tie rods, steering racks, and
subframes. In addition, shock absorber/strut upper mounts are to be
considered suspension components.

You can use drop spindles. Can't move your rack. The LE tie rod ends are acceptable as they were available as an option.

Bob
16.1.F allows you to move the rack.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:51 PM   #29
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Driftworks drop spindles for the S-chassis run around $2500 a set (but they are coming from the UK). I can't remember who makes some in the States, but i think they were a fraction cheaper.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:15 PM   #30
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What about how Modified Mag did to correct the geometry (2000 Honda S2000 - Adjustable Geometry, Optimum Handling - Project S2K - Modified Magazine) but on the miata it would have to be the K-member and the rear suspension cage. If V8 Roadsters built something to correct or make a better geometry I would be in!
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:04 PM   #31
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I agree with what is being said here. I know the stock ones can be made to handle very well.
I also wasnt taking budget or classes into account. That is my mistake. Most of my experience with race cars is more of an unlimited situation.

If most classes cant have them and stock are doing what they need too $1000-$3000 definitely doesnt seem feasible.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:22 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Midtenn View Post
Driftworks drop spindles for the S-chassis run around $2500 a set (but they are coming from the UK). I can't remember who makes some in the States, but i think they were a fraction cheaper.


More like $1400 or so.

PBM is making forged knuckles, and Era-1 makes cast spindles. Lots of options these days, though it seems like 240 owners are bigger brokedicks with every passing week.

Roll center in a 240 goes to hell pretty fast in the front (thanks mac struts) and I know in my 240 it was a huge benefit when I added correction. The other beauty of spindles is that you can shorter the steering pick up to quicken the steering. I'm at 2.25 turns lock-to-lock now, and I love it. Makes the miata rack feel slow
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:40 PM   #33
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You also forgot to take into account how cheap we all are.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:41 PM   #34
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There's a company in Japan that makes them

SP-TEC
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:42 PM   #35
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People aren't buying anything close to Xidas in 240land, let alone drop spindles.

Though with more and more people taking their drifting srsly, the market is opening up. No impact on the grassroots level stuff, though.

For the miata I don't see much utility just b/c the susp works so well. 240s take a lot of money to work well.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:47 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ascovel View Post
There's a company in Japan that makes them

SP-TEC
They cost 677/thing I dont know if that is per pair or for a single.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:49 PM   #37
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677 per pair but you still have to pay for shipping.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:12 PM   #38
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What are the suspension measurements, I'm 1200 miles away from my car and can't do the measurements. upper cont arm center bushing to center bushing, center to center on the spindle, lower control arm center to center and for the inner K-member.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:23 PM   #39
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Danny George Racing has come out with designs for drop spindles, with intent to produce them.

Danny George - Drop Spindles

And yes, Danny George is a drifter.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:05 PM   #40
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Early stages here. But all the feedback is welcomed. This is a big project with a lot of costs involved so making them as universal for everyone can make it a smart decision to go forward.

Emilio mentioned adding in camber of -1 degree front. Putting +.5 rear. That pretty common thoughts? For drift we will have enough adjustment to not be affected by that.
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