Drop spindle discussion - Page 4 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Race Prep Miata race-only chat.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-05-2013, 01:41 PM   #61
Senior Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Murfreesboro,TN
Posts: 1,279
Total Cats: 53
Default

Are they bending in a similar location and is it a simple matter of just adding a little gusseting. I also wonder if its a bad batch (material is wrong or out of spec) or its a design problem.
Midtenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 02:31 PM   #62
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,323
Total Cats: 1,343
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by albumleaf View Post
Just another data point, a LS2 autocross/weekend toy NB bent one of those V8Roadsters arms running 225/45/15 RS3s at an autox earlier last year. No contact with curbs, etc. V8R replaced it for free, but it's not very confidence inspiring.
V8R has revised their tubular arms no less than 5 times that I know of.

It sounds like the several comments of "autocrossers bend stuff that road racers can't" are based solely on problems with early V8R arms. The spherical bearing tubular Cr-Mo type arms used on Jesse Prathers EP car would probably be just fine on a national level SSM or CSP car.

Soo..
Back to the context of the thread, yes any drop spindles designed for the Miata should be strong and stiff enough for any conceivable usage they might see, including autocross.
emilio700 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 12:35 AM   #63
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,479
Total Cats: 116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
V8R has revised their tubular arms no less than 5 times that I know of.

It sounds like the several comments of "autocrossers bend stuff that road racers can't" are based solely on problems with early V8R arms. The spherical bearing tubular Cr-Mo type arms used on Jesse Prathers EP car would probably be just fine on a national level SSM or CSP car.

Soo..
Back to the context of the thread, yes any drop spindles designed for the Miata should be strong and stiff enough for any conceivable usage they might see, including autocross.
I know an SSM Miata that completely folded both sides at once a set of EP Miata front upper arms during straight line braking on a smooth asphalt surface during the first event on them. They claimed they had never had a failure before.

It is interesting that EP Miata’s design for their rear upper arm has zero for aft stiffness only attaching to one of the chassis side spots. Must just twist the hell out of the lower arm with for/aft and braking loads.

The V8R arms look better but they did go through some design iterations that looked pretty sketchy to me on the front lowers.



Last edited by bbundy; 02-07-2013 at 01:05 AM.
bbundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 12:42 AM   #64
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
I know an SSM Miata that completely folded both sides at once a set of EP Miata front upper arms during straight line braking on a smooth asphalt surface during the first event on them. They claimed they had never had a failure before.

It is interesting that EP Miata’s design for their rear upper arm has zero for aft stiffness only attaching to one of the chassis side spots. Must just twist the hell out of the lower arm with for/aft and braking loads.

The V8R arms look better but they did go through some design iterations that looked pretty sketchy to me on the front lowers.
We'll have to see what I end up concocting when I get around to having time to design a full set for my car. I fully intend to manufacture a jig for welding them so I could potentially bring these to market as I wont be limited by my agreement with the shop at school that doesnt allow me to make a profit. Mmm no compromise arms designed specifically for SSM or higher cars, with actual FEA backing them up. Hopefully I'll get around to this before I nuke a set of stock arms.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2013, 09:49 AM   #65
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: OKC, OK
Posts: 2,655
Total Cats: 76
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
We'll have to see what I end up concocting when I get around to having time to design a full set for my car. I fully intend to manufacture a jig for welding them so I could potentially bring these to market as I wont be limited by my agreement with the shop at school that doesnt allow me to make a profit. Mmm no compromise arms designed specifically for SSM or higher cars, with actual FEA backing them up. Hopefully I'll get around to this before I nuke a set of stock arms.
I'm interested. I have a set of V8R front uppers on my track car now. 15 20minute sessions so far with no issues. I bought these ~July of last year.

As long as you add some extra adjustability for camber.
z31maniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 01:45 PM   #66
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,120
Total Cats: 44
Default

Andrew Keisler(a guy from Knoxville,TN) is getting serious about a prototype drop spindle.

Drop Spindles 101

I told him to send a prototype to you, Emilio. I also asked him about the loss of droop travel. I'm going to guess some spacers would be a lot easier than having a whole new shock made, initially at least.

Edit: Not 100%, but last I heard he's shooting for a ~$800 or less price-point.
flier129 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 04:22 PM   #67
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,323
Total Cats: 1,343
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by flier129 View Post
Andrew Keisler(a guy from Knoxville,TN) is getting serious about a prototype drop spindle.

Drop Spindles 101

I told him to send a prototype to you, Emilio. I also asked him about the loss of droop travel. I'm going to guess some spacers would be a lot easier than having a whole new shock made, initially at least.

Edit: Not 100%, but last I heard he's shooting for a ~$800 or less price-point.
If and when we get spindles from one of three different potential sources, we will just add spacers to the upper mounts to mock it up. When we're sure they work and are in production, we'll build special Xidas with a longer body/shaft and more droop travel for them.
emilio700 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 07:06 PM   #68
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,120
Total Cats: 44
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
If and when we get spindles from one of three different potential sources, we will just add spacers to the upper mounts to mock it up. When we're sure they work and are in production, we'll build special Xidas with a longer body/shaft and more droop travel for them.
Heh, the ultimate "how to make your miata go fast on 15x10s, slicks, and aero" package.

Are the ASTs shock body shorter than OEM shocks?
flier129 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 02:57 PM   #69
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 10
Total Cats: 0
Default

Dr Pooface is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2013, 03:12 PM   #70
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

The bushing set they sell looks exactly like the muraha one, except the muraha ones are mad tyte jdm yo and cost less. I wonder what they cost without the jdm tax...
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 01:18 AM   #71
Junior Member
 
guttedmiata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 438
Total Cats: -3
Default

I just installed Keisler Automation's drop spindles up front.

What I have are prototypes - first set other than what Andrew has tested on his own car.

All aluminum. Super light. 2" drop. Priced better than you can imagine.

He's tweaking the design slightly right now and is also working on a design with a bolt on hub.
guttedmiata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 01:20 AM   #72
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 381
Total Cats: -13
Default

How many different shops are making these?

Hese are making me excited.
Dot3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 11:42 AM   #73
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 671
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by guttedmiata View Post
He's tweaking the design slightly right now and is also working on a design with a bolt on hub.
I saw the pictures of the bolt-on hub design, but seems there is no provision for the ABS in those? Or is a different ABS sensor used which is part of the bolt-on hub - i.e. like the NC Miata?



j_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 11:44 AM   #74
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by j_man View Post
I saw the pictures of the bolt-on hub design, but seems there is no provision for the ABS in those? Or is a different ABS sensor used which is part of the bolt-on hub?


Looks like the bolt on hub has built in ABS. No idea if its would work with the stock abs without a translator board.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 12:39 PM   #75
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,454
Total Cats: 80
Default

Running a smaller o.d. tire (very short sidewalls) will have the same geometry effect as drop spindles.

e.g. 225/30/15 would drop the car by 1 inch. It would have 4% smaller rolling diameter though.

Would such a tire not be a good solution?
JasonC SBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 12:45 PM   #76
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Running a smaller o.d. tire (very short sidewalls) will have the same geometry effect as drop spindles.

e.g. 225/30/15 would drop the car by 1 inch. It would have 4% smaller rolling diameter though.

Would such a tire not be a good solution?
One trouble becomes tire temps. I would be seriously concerned with even an auto-x turbo miata overheating the 255 13 hoosiers in the A6 compound in the middle of a run. And the other trouble is the 275 is faster than the 255. I dont know what the road racer options are. But I know some of those guys are already running the super short 13" options.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 01:01 PM   #77
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,391
Total Cats: 58
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Running a smaller o.d. tire (very short sidewalls) will have the same geometry effect as drop spindles.

e.g. 225/30/15 would drop the car by 1 inch. It would have 4% smaller rolling diameter though.

Would such a tire not be a good solution?
Shorter contact patch in theory.

But as we all know, tires are not available on custom order (any size, any construction, any compound, any thread, ...) but rather as discrete options and you have to adjust to what's available.

I'd love to have 1" drop in the spindles and gain angles, bump range (with less than optimal dampers), etc.

If there are several designs on the way now, it will probably be something nice and decently priced to aim for in 2018 or so when I get around to it...
NiklasFalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 01:31 PM   #78
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 671
Total Cats: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Looks like the bolt on hub has built in ABS. No idea if its would work with the stock abs without a translator board.
Most cars nowadays run Bosch ABS units and many of those use 44 teeth per rev wheels. I guess if that hub is like that (doen't come from some exotic application) it should work. Is there info on what kind of car is it from?

Asking since the main use of such spindles would be Miata prepped for racing. And if the class allows ABS, a Miata with a decent ABS would be faster than non ABS one every time (assuming everything else on the two cars is the same of course) ...



j_man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2013, 01:38 PM   #79
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,093
Total Cats: 90
Default

The guy who was peddling them before said they were from a toyota. So MR2 front or Celica rear are the most likely I would think.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2013, 12:59 PM   #80
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 111
Total Cats: 8
Default

I recently installed the rear driftworks knuckles in my s13. I had to go from 16 to 17" rims to stop the LCA scrubbing the inside of the wheel under hard compression, had to change shocks to stop them from fouling on the drive shafts (I have larger skyline gtr diff and shafts). There was a few other small things like rearranging brake lines, but nothing major. These are obviously very specific to the car and the more extreme 40mm drop, but still some things to be aware of for these types of products.
Vilko is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
Nuke Mars! Joe Perez Current Events, News, Politics 8 09-30-2015 05:41 PM
Low oil pressure after 1.8 swap and new turbo setup JesseTheNoob DIY Turbo Discussion 15 09-30-2015 03:44 PM
Are my coils failing? viriiguy General Miata Chat 5 09-28-2015 08:39 PM
Another Alternator thread ihiryu General Miata Chat 9 09-28-2015 11:22 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:16 AM.