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Old 06-03-2014, 09:13 PM   #41
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Is he aware of this thread?
No. Low SA.
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Old 06-03-2014, 09:38 PM   #42
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I bet he is a champ on Forza and thinks that it equates to real-life driving
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Old 06-03-2014, 09:47 PM   #43
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Silver GT3 guy turned out to be a pretty cool dude in person just like the Viper guy, just bad judgement. Passing where he was not allowed to, not lifting, not pointing by.
I spoke to him as well. Poor choice of words on my behalf. I guess we were all green at one time and did foolish things. I hooked him up with some local resources for repairing the crash damage.

Back to the OP's video and the original post. How should we fellow drivers handle any of the described situations? I know a one on one talk can sometimes be a bit confrontational but safety is paramount. It seems kinda whiny to talk with officials and complain. Thoughts?
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Old 06-03-2014, 10:24 PM   #44
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In a blue flag situation -- which we often find ourselves in due to the nature of Miatas -- I just seek out the person and speak with them. That's always been well-received and you often make a new friend.

I've never come across dangerous driving like this though. In a situation like this, the organizer or track officials have to step in I think.
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Old 06-03-2014, 11:05 PM   #45
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How should we fellow drivers handle any of the described situations? I know a one on one talk can sometimes be a bit confrontational but safety is paramount. It seems kinda whiny to talk with officials and complain. Thoughts?
Officials are there to take your complaints. They can't do anything about an issue if they don't know about it. Please, please talk to them about something you feel is unsafe (or just aren't happy about).

If I see something nutty on track, I'll pull into the hot pits and tell whoever is working grid. It helps that they know me and know I wouldn't be talking to them if it wasn't a real problem, but I promise they're interested in hearing from anyone.

robert
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Old 06-03-2014, 11:12 PM   #46
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Not at all, I have no hesitation pointing out to officials who shouldn't be on track. A few years ago a buddy of mine were on track (he was in an exige s and couldn't lost my NA6C except on the straights) but at least he was safe.........we had to report a guy in a home built atom type car........he ended up driving 3 more sessions the next 2 days because the instructors were trying to show him what to do.

I'm spending my money to have fun, not be on track with some douches that are endangering people. Sorry if you're so terrible my na6c on R888s is Turing the same lap times as your c5 on Hoosiers, you need some serious serious help and ego checking.

EDIT: rcope has it right and he has even way more experience than me. I learned all this stuff back on 2 wheels, where I'd murder guys on 1000cc bikes on my 600 through the turns the. Then they'd blow down the straights.



Don't ever feel like an *******, it's not just your safety that is affected it's everyone on track. I've been in plenty of situations with guys pointing me buy and not completely lifting and I say **** it I'm going by you on the inside on the brakes (shouldn't do it but **** sometimes).

Most of the times the officials are good, but they don't see everything.
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:13 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by k24madness View Post
I spoke to him as well. Poor choice of words on my behalf. I guess we were all green at one time and did foolish things. I hooked him up with some local resources for repairing the crash damage.

Back to the OP's video and the original post. How should we fellow drivers handle any of the described situations? I know a one on one talk can sometimes be a bit confrontational but safety is paramount. It seems kinda whiny to talk with officials and complain. Thoughts?
I agree with you. Running with NASA-SE, they tend to let people go too long sometimes, but going to speak with the person has usually had a good result for me, just politely walking over and mentioning that you were that car behind him for the last few laps and he will say "sorry, hope I wasn't slowing you down".

In some cases, that doesn't work, for example there was a yellow corvette who had trouble pointing anyone by, not just miatas. In those cases, I usually slow down or pit and ask for space. Bringing it up with class room instructors helps, but once you are in advanced, class room happens once a day, if even.

I haven't had much luck with grid officials. I have also seen a friend speak with another student's instructor about helping him with point-bys (ie reminding him to point by), but that was in a novice group.
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:19 AM   #48
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It's really situational. In the case of something like this video, I would go talk to the grid, although it was obvious they were aware already.

In other cases, when the guy is driving okay and just not letting me by and it is kind of a grey area, I might go talk to him after the session. "Hey, I was in the silver Miata. Did you see me?" Most of the time they did and it wasn't 100% clear to them that I was looking to get by or that they were slowing me up. I explain that I've got about 130hp and can't keep up when we're pointed straight, etc. Usually they have no idea what it is like for us lower powered cars, but a little explaining fixes things up and we have no more problems.

robert
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:51 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by z31maniac View Post
Not at all, I have no hesitation pointing out to officials who shouldn't be on track. A few years ago a buddy of mine were on track (he was in an exige s and couldn't lost my NA6C except on the straights) but at least he was safe.........we had to report a guy in a home built atom type car........he ended up driving 3 more sessions the next 2 days because the instructors were trying to show him what to do.

I'm spending my money to have fun, not be on track with some douches that are endangering people. Sorry if you're so terrible my na6c on R888s is Turing the same lap times as your c5 on Hoosiers, you need some serious serious help and ego checking.

EDIT: rcope has it right and he has even way more experience than me. I learned all this stuff back on 2 wheels, where I'd murder guys on 1000cc bikes on my 600 through the turns the. Then they'd blow down the straights.



Don't ever feel like an *******, it's not just your safety that is affected it's everyone on track. I've been in plenty of situations with guys pointing me buy and not completely lifting and I say **** it I'm going by you on the inside on the brakes (shouldn't do it but **** sometimes).

Most of the times the officials are good, but they don't see everything.
Oh.
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Old 06-04-2014, 01:03 PM   #50
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After all the missed black flags, I'm wondering what ever made him realize it was time to get off the track at the end of the session.
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Old 06-04-2014, 01:49 PM   #51
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Out of gas?

You can actually see the silver S2000 pull into the hot pits at the end of the first lap to inform officials. He was one of the cars forced to do an unsafe pass at Ricochet. The black flags were frantically waving after that -- to no avail.
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Old 06-04-2014, 02:20 PM   #52
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Ouch. That is just painful. I would never sign myself up for Advanced on a track I haven't driven before. That's just incomprehensible to me. I'd sign up for Novice and talk with the organization about the possibilities of check rides to move up once I had the track line down. Being a rolling road block is not only dangerous, it's not even fun.

Yet another reason why no organization should allow unknown drivers to solo at their events without some sort of solid known-to-them reference. I'm glad you, the person you once called friend, and Red all survived unscathed.
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Old 06-04-2014, 02:35 PM   #53
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I'm not going to watch the video, I stopped instructing from the passenger seat a long time ago (coward, I know).
Even if I only visit training session for racecars there are the odd endurance team schooling new drivers which can be "interesting", but then there is no point by, passing here or there, just passing by brute force wherever you like.

The trackday sessions I hold with the flag in hand tend to be without direct rules (as I know there is only two brain cells left for thinking out there), just dividing the drivers according to experience (novice to pure racers). The most problems we have had is too experienced drivers visiting the less experienced drivers and startling them with close passes etc.

If someone disregard my black flag three laps in a row, they should be prepared to get something in the windshield the next time they pass (rotten eggs are easy to throw).
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Old 06-04-2014, 04:11 PM   #54
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Having had too many run-ins with big ego drivers in HPDE's over the years, I have learned to do a few things:

1. Cool down and have what concise message you are trying to convey before approaching the other driver.

2. Introduce yourself with a smile and a handshake first, before saying a word otherwise.

3. Complement them on how fast/good looking their car is. I'm a dead serious here.

4. Remember that this is an observation and ensuing discussion, not a confrontation and accusation. Right or wrong, put any driver on the defensive and they'll be stubborn and likely unpleasant.

5. Do not recite your resume. Do your best to remain humble and not turn it into a pissing match. You already know the other driver has an ego/reality perception disconnect. Don't feed the beast.

5. Hold hands at side, behind or in pockets (or on beer). Non attacking posture. This is a bigger deal than you might imagine. Do not point a finger! Do your level best to keep a smile.

6. Explain what you observed, make a suggestion. Do not state as fact/accuse of wrongdoing.

7. Duck

I have worked very closely with a particular event promoter for almost 10 years now. I have an obligation to not **** off his customers so I go out of my way to defuse any potential conflicts. Also, that fellow may buy wheels from me someday
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Old 06-04-2014, 04:18 PM   #55
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That's crazy advice. The best thing to do is to spot them pulling into the pits, haul *** to get on their bumper, follow them to their pit spot, slam the brakes on (making sure to lock them up or engage ABS), jump out of your car while it is still running, leaving your door open, and just start yelling like a madman. Guaranteed to catch them off guard and get their attention! Also, don't give them time to retort. Jump back in your car and do a huge burnout pulling away (or as best as a burnout as your little girly car and do).

robert
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Old 06-04-2014, 04:28 PM   #56
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So . . . Emilio ducks and Robert runs. Hmmmmm . . . .

I've met a lot of great people when asking for point-byes after a session. If you do it right, they actually feel sorry for you and your little car. Just don't discuss laptimes. LOL.
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Old 06-04-2014, 05:40 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by robertcope View Post
That's crazy advice. The best thing to do is to spot them pulling into the pits, haul *** to get on their bumper, follow them to their pit spot, slam the brakes on (making sure to lock them up or engage ABS), jump out of your car while it is still running, leaving your door open, and just start yelling like a madman. Guaranteed to catch them off guard and get their attention! Also, don't give them time to retort. Jump back in your car and do a huge burnout pulling away (or as best as a burnout as your little girly car and do).

robert
Don't forget the roundhouse helmet slap!
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Old 06-04-2014, 05:44 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by robertcope View Post
That's crazy advice. The best thing to do is to spot them pulling into the pits, haul *** to get on their bumper, follow them to their pit spot, slam the brakes on (making sure to lock them up or engage ABS), jump out of your car while it is still running, leaving your door open, and just start yelling like a madman. Guaranteed to catch them off guard and get their attention! Also, don't give them time to retort. Jump back in your car and do a huge burnout pulling away (or as best as a burnout as your little girly car and do).

robert
That sounds like Tony Stewart advice.
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:17 PM   #59
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So . . . Emilio ducks and Robert runs. Hmmmmm . . . .

I've met a lot of great people when asking for point-byes after a session. If you do it right, they actually feel sorry for you and your little car. Just don't discuss laptimes. LOL.
My perspective is that you never know who your friends or enemies might be.

How many of us have had a so-so first impression of someone who went on to become a close and trusted friend? I certainly have. I'm a glass a half full person (read: idiot).
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Old 06-04-2014, 07:29 PM   #60
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On the bright side, he did improve his lap times:

2:03.4
1:53.8
1:54.6 (would have been faster, but he stopped to mow the lawn)
1:50.4

At this rate, I project he would be down to 1:30.0 in another six laps.
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