emilio700

iTrader: (3)

Intersted.

Moar info pls

dc2696

iTrader: (2)

We ran the ESS 2.3 system in our enduro NB.

Tom is great to deal with, recertifying and refilling is super easy/cheap with their unpressurized system, would definitely recommend it.

Supe

Novec is basically the non-ozone depleting replacement for Halon.

My concerns with Novec are the same reason I avoided Halon historically - if you're in a closed cockpit/closed window series, by all means run it. However, I have no windows in my car, and the series that I run requires windows down at all times if you do. If you have to activate the fire system before you are at a dead stop (or even once you are), you are losing a lot of that gas volume and flareup prevention out the windows. Its possible that the Novec systems can move enough volume quickly enough to extinguish everything, but I don't want to be in a situation where I have to find out.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

Interesting. Agree, same reason I wouldn't use Halon. Also displaces O2. That's vital considering O2 is what keeps the driver conscious until they can exit. Halon was, I believe, designed for use in airplane wings where fuel is carried. Closed system and the ideal properties for that application.

For an open window car, with me in it, I'll take messy foam that absorbs heat and doesn't displace O2.

One minor detail, make sure the floor in your car is grippy enough for you to use your feet to eject if its wet with foam. Bare metal floor (beside being hot) is damn slippery when wet.

j_man

You can't be more wrong. Halotron is the direct Halon replacement.
Novec 1230 does not remove oxygen. It removes heat thus it is much safer in an enclosed tight spaces with people as a cockpit of a race car.

j_man

* It is non-toxic and does not remove oxygen thus you can spray it inside the cockpit
* It works on both gasoline and E85
* It is non-corrosive and causes no damage on wiring and electronics
* There is no clean-up after use - it fully evaporates after use leaving no trace

Here is how it works:

If you want to get one

By Lifeline, it is their Zero 360 line of products:
LifelineUSA - Novec

By Spa Technique: Look at their Spa Extreme line:
https://www.spatechnique.com/store/i...t.cfm?catID=30

Or if you're baller you can even get a system which WRC use - FIA 8865-2015 certified, carbon fiber bottles and separate bottles for the engine and cockpit:
https://www.spatechnique.com/store/i...=1028&catID=30

Both Lifeline and SPA Technique offer Novec handhelds too - they go under the same line names (Zero 360 and Extreme)

P.S. If you try doing this with AFFF, you'll have to replace all electronics and wiring after that

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

That's neat. Thanks for the info. Too lazy to research it myself :P

stevos555

So the main question is whether it works in a car with no windows? I will need to do more research and get back to the thread and post my findings.

j_man

Formula cars have no windows and roofs. Seems to me that is a way more extreme case than a Miata with windows down Read the first sentence in the first paragraph:
https://www.spatechnique.com/content...Aex_225-AE.pdf

j_man

Test of the SPA Novec 1230 system for WRC with a single nozzle:

jpreston

iTrader: (4)

I just found that Safecraft makes a cheaper option for Novec, and they offer a 10lb version where SPA and Lifeline only do ~5lb. The giant 10lb might be overkill but would make me feel better about some of it going out the windows before the car is stopped. Available at Summit, pitstopusa, etc.

https://safecraft.com/product/model-lt/
https://pitstopusa.com/i-23955168-sa...ategory:135210
https://pitstopusa.com/i-5078323-saf...ategory:135210

Supe

3M literally markets Novec 1230 as a replacement for Halon (and FM200), even for industrial usage. Yes, they behave differently, but I have never seen a Halotron suppression system for race cars. I've seen small handheld extinguishers, but not a suppression system.

FWIW, the cup car guys run Novec 1230 systems, but they run 15 pounders minimum - 5 for cockpit only, 10 for fuel cell area.

j_man

Because Halotron is not suitable I guess Safety data sheets have this "The toxic effects of the proprietary gas mixture in the absence of extremetemperature are primarily its ability to function as a simple asphyxiant (i.e. displace oxygen)"
Anyway. Novec 1230 does not displace oxygen and is safe in the cockpit.
But best, talk to the system manufacturers - they know how the thing should be installed and what do the different FIA standards related to these mean, why nowadays top tier racing series and FIA standards ask for separate bottles for driver and engine and so on.

Xaendeau

This whole thread is full of great information. I'm impressed by the element fire sticks. There's no reason not to carry something like that in a modified car.