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Old 07-27-2012, 07:46 PM   #101
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I know a lot of caged cars dont have a pass seat, but for those of you that do, is this a common issue? Will HPDE instructors even ride in the car?
I've seen the same rub on my Stances and FM Vmaxx. Sounds more normal than i originally thought.

I would say to just sit the seat up more towards vertical. As an instructor I would rather sit up straight than bounce my head every left turn. Ive ridden in lots of SM/AI cars turned son/brother/cousin's HPDE car with a (sometimes stock) seat crammed in on the passenger side.

This whole thread is what went through my mind over the course of 2006-2010. Good job doing it right the first time and taking advantage of the awesome community here! I don't post much but I've learned a lot, and fixed a lot of my past mistakes reading what goes on here
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Old 07-27-2012, 08:06 PM   #102
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I would say to just sit the seat up more towards vertical. As an instructor I would rather sit up straight than bounce my head every left turn. Ive ridden in lots of SM/AI cars turned son/brother/cousin's HPDE car with a (sometimes stock) seat crammed in on the passenger side.
Sitting more upright puts you closer to the bar, not further away. The reason you dont bash your head on the drivers side is because it has the relief bend in the cage so you can recline a lot more. If I were to recline the pass seat as much as the drivers seat is, you wouldnt have anywhere to put your legs.

Thanks. I definitely hate spending and then re-spending because I didnt just do it right the first time.
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:43 PM   #103
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I spent most of the day on saturday working on my heel/toe. I definitely need to get some different shoes or do something differently because I have trouble modulating the brake pedal.

I had an interesting issue that went along with the heel/toe, and I wonder if anyone else has had this issue as well. Turns out, when I move my leg/knee to heel/toe shift, i frequently bump the ignition key with my knee and turn the car off. I probably did this 8 times over the course of the day. I guess Ill have to make the car push start.

I know I forgot to hook my HANS tethers up. Ignore that.



I took 1 second off my previous best time in this car, and I am now faster in this than I was in my sti. Best lap of the day was 1:27.6 with a number of laps in the high 1:27's. I am extremely consistent at getting 1:28 laps (every lap was a 1:27 or :28, minus the laps that I shut the damn car off).

I think I can gain some more time at the last turn, as I am still a bit skiddish after my offroad excursions last time in this turn. I really don't want to meet that concrete wall at an open lapping day.

I brake way too soon for turn 2, but I think I will get better with that as I get better at heel/toe (i was being cautious because I was screwing up every once in a while...didnt want an 80mph offroad event). I come into the corner saying "brake late" over and over again but my feet dont listen.

I also need to do something differently at turn 7.
I cant tell if I am over-revving or what when i downshift-- i either need to take more speed into the turn and stay in 3rd or do something completely different. The speed that I am going is right between gears-- obvious answer is to go faster.

In turn 10, I started taking more of a straight line through the corner (learned that from a friend and videos from the guy who holds the track record). That allows me to have a much higher corner entry/exit speed than the old line i took (i stay in 3rd now) and I feel that the car is more stable (the track on the far right at corner entry is extremely bumpy making braking difficult with my old line).

I feel that I am starting to get better at the "momentum driving" that is required for these cars. My second event I spent way too much time shifting and not enough time trying to drive smoothly. This video is much less dramatic, but a second faster than I was before.
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Old 07-31-2012, 08:44 AM   #104
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For heel/toe braking I needed to adjust the height of my brake pedal using the adjusting rod. I also bent the throttle pedal rod slightly toward the brake pedal. Adjust as necessary.

The brake pedal was at a good height when practicing heel/toe on the street, but once on the track I was braking much harder than on the street and it ended up being too low. I had to adjust it higher for the track. I have a pedal pad extension that I purchased to help the side to side distance between pedals but didn't end up needing.
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:51 PM   #105
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Well, the season up north here is winding to and end. Highs in the low 60's, and its starting to rain more and more. Probably have only one more track day until the season ends. I want to use this thread now as a notepad of sorts for me to jot down information, and people can add/critique as I go along.

At this point, I think I have progressed a ton this season. I am starting to get the car dialed in, and can now actually "feel" the changes that I make (tire pressures, etc). I have taken over 2 seconds off my lap time with setup changes (1:20 ish track), and the car feels a ton better than it did in the beginning of the year. At the time attack events, I am running about a second behind a 200+ hp '99, which is the only car I have to compare to.

With that said, I want moar power for next season. What do you think of my plan?

What I want to do is upgrade in a linear path. I want to build my motor this winter, prepping for turbo, then do turbo the year after. My target HP when all is said and done is 250 MAX.

I have an '01 VVT motor/accessory drive to swap into my car (95 m edition)-- SANS injectors and throttle body. I have the engine harness, but not the ECU.

This winter, build the motor. Manley rods and pistons. ARP studs. Bearings, gaskets, honing, motor mounts. I think I want to run in the area of a 10.5:1 CR. I will be switching to corn fuel once I go turbo, maybe sooner. I will be running a ViPec standalone. This seems to be obtainable for around 3000 dollars. Depending on the budget, I will need a clutch, flywheel, and start searching for a 6speed to be prepared for the future. I dont believe I want to pay for head work at this point. The VVT should more than fulfill my desires/goals at this point.

The plan after that is to run the year on the motor, learn more, then add the TSE turbo kit the year after. Switch to corn at this point if i haven't done so yet. Injectors. Fuel Pump.

Tell me why this is all wrong and completely rewrite my plan.
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:53 PM   #106
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What is this standalone I've never heard of before.
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:55 PM   #107
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It is the ECU of choice for my local tuner. Runs about 1700 bucks. The tuner says that it has more features than the AEM. There are some subarus locally that run it, as well as a 9 second drag subaru, so im not worried about its capabilities.

http://www.vi-pec.com/ecus/pluginecu#mazda
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Old 09-26-2012, 05:01 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by stuiephoto View Post
It is the ECU of choice for my local tuner. Runs about 1700 bucks. The tuner says that it has more features than the AEM. There are some subarus locally that run it, as well as a 9 second drag subaru, so im not worried about its capabilities.

PlugIn — Vi-PEC Engine Management
It's not plug and play though. they have one model for all miatas...
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Old 09-26-2012, 05:20 PM   #109
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I dont see any features it has that aem doesnt, its actually quite lacking.
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Old 09-26-2012, 06:37 PM   #110
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It's not plug and play though. they have one model for all miatas...
Sure it is, didn't you see step 7 of the installation guide?



Just connect it to the factory loom, silly.
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:26 PM   #111
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I wouldn't do most of the things you listed because I don't like to waste money. You don't need to build the motor to run below 250whp. You don't need a turbo as big or as nice as the one in the TSE kit for under 250whp. You don't need an ECU that costs $1700 to make under 250whp. You may desire those things, and they might be very nice things, but you do not need them to accomplish the stated goal.

You asked for opinions and that's mine.
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:04 PM   #112
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I wouldn't do most of the things you listed because I don't like to waste money. You don't need to build the motor to run below 250whp. You don't need a turbo as big or as nice as the one in the TSE kit for under 250whp. You don't need an ECU that costs $1700 to make under 250whp. You may desire those things, and they might be very nice things, but you do not need them to accomplish the stated goal.

You asked for opinions and that's mine.
What is the reliability/longevity going to be like on a track only motor at that power range versus a "built" motor? Maybe I should save money and run this motor stock til it blows up, then keeo amd build my 95 bottom end when that happens?

Im at a crossroads with the ecu. I have always been taught to choose the ecu that your tuner is most comfortable with. Ill have to have him make a list of what the aem isn't as good at doing as the vipec. Does the aem offer programmable safeguards?


I don't think you will sway me from the tse kit. I expect the build quality will be top notch...don't feel like rebuying later if I didn't like the cheaper stuff. Also, the power curve on that turbo looks pretty impressive. I still have a while before I choose the turbo kit.
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:13 PM   #113
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The TSE kit will be great, and will be reliable. I was just saying that at your power level goal, you could go with a lesser (read Chinese) turbo and still be fine. The rest of the kit would be fantastic and reliable for whatever you threw at it.

As for features of the ECU, what specifically do you think are "must have" items that lesser ECUs are lacking?

And with regard to the engine, if you don't over rev it, and you don't tune it in such a way that it will likely detonate, you should be fine with a stock bottom end. I remember that you used all caps when you said 250hp MAX. I'm making about 220whp on my track car on a Braineak built MS1 that I got used for $400. I tuned it myself with no prior experience and just a little bit of studying. I had an experienced tuner take a look at the TunerStudio software and the settings that were available for adjusting and he said it was a piece of cake to set up and manipulate. He said the AEMs had more things that they could do, but were far more difficult to set up and manipulate. Even the lowly MS1 has overboost protection, a rev limiter, and can pull ignition timing if the inlet air temperature goes too high. I am by no means saying you should get an MS1, but to be frank, the ECU is not where I have had problems.

I've had problems with heat management even with a big 52mm single pass radiator and an additional oil cooler. The TSE double or triple pass radiator might be a better investment for some of those dollars you are appropriating. The TSE turbo kit would also address the manifold stud failure issue that so many of us have faced. I have also spent a great deal of time building heat shielding around the exhaust manifold, turbine, downpipe, and exhaust pipe. Everything gets heat soaked by the exhaust if you drive it hard for any length of time, including brake lines, master cylinder, heater hoses, transmission, rear diff, CV joint at inside left rear axle, throttle cable, CAS, etc. Everything in direct line of sight of an exhaust component gets a large dose of radiant heat and should be considered for protection. Remember, making twice the stock power means making twice the amount of heat and even the stock exhaust manifold and pipes were multi-layer shielded.
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:15 PM   #114
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The TSE kit will be great, and will be reliable. I was just saying that at your power level goal, you could go with a lesser (read Chinese) turbo and still be fine. The rest of the kit would be fantastic and reliable for whatever you threw at it.

I am not sure that the TSE kit will be available for purchase without the turbo included? I read that whole thread and didnt see anywhere where that was an option. We will have to see what happens hen its actually released

As for features of the ECU, what specifically do you think are "must have" items that lesser ECUs are lacking?

I have no idea. Im just listening to my tuner. I dont have any knowledge of the specifics of tuning--i just pay someone else to do it. The vipec is the ECU of choice for my tuner, and during "chit chat" about what my plans were with the car, he said off the cuff that the vipec was what I should go with

And with regard to the engine, if you don't over rev it, and you don't tune it in such a way that it will likely detonate, you should be fine with a stock bottom end. I remember that you used all caps when you said 250hp MAX. I'm making about 220whp on my track car on a Braineak built MS1 that I got used for $400. I tuned it myself with no prior experience and just a little bit of studying. I had an experienced tuner take a look at the TunerStudio software and the settings that were available for adjusting and he said it was a piece of cake to set up and manipulate. He said the AEMs had more things that they could do, but were far more difficult to set up and manipulate. Even the lowly MS1 has overboost protection, a rev limiter, and can pull ignition timing if the inlet air temperature goes too high. I am by no means saying you should get an MS1, but to be frank, the ECU is not where I have had problems.

I dont have anything against the MS specifically, but my tuner will not support it due to a lot of issues he has had with hondas and the such in the past running poorly assembled/buggy units. I am sure most of these issues are with legacy products, but he wont support it so im SOL

I've had problems with heat management even with a big 52mm single pass radiator and an additional oil cooler. The TSE double or triple pass radiator might be a better investment for some of those dollars you are appropriating.

I have a koyo 55 currently. I am not AS concerned about heat management as you guys down south-- the absolutely MAX it would be is like 95, and thats a rarity (it was 58 degrees the other day at the track..raced with a hoodie on-- cant imagine HANS tested that). You guys are nuts going out in 105 degree weather..haha..I would melt. I wanted the TSE unit when I bought my koyo rad but it was on indefinite backorder due to a supply issue. I'm definitely going to pay a lot of attention to ducting though-- seems to be more important to a degree than the actual thickness if the rad

The TSE turbo kit would also address the manifold stud failure issue that so many of us have faced. I have also spent a great deal of time building heat shielding around the exhaust manifold, turbine, downpipe, and exhaust pipe. Everything gets heat soaked by the exhaust if you drive it hard for any length of time, including brake lines, master cylinder, heater hoses, transmission, rear diff, CV joint at inside left rear axle, throttle cable, CAS, etc. Everything in direct line of sight of an exhaust component gets a large dose of radiant heat and should be considered for protection. Remember, making twice the stock power means making twice the amount of heat and even the stock exhaust manifold and pipes were multi-layer shielded.

Reliability is definitely the most important factor for me. I have issues as my car is with the footwell getting unbearably hot as it is, so this is definitely on my list of things to do. In the tranny tunnel, there really is so little clearance to get a substantial heat shield in there-- I definitely have to re-think the whole setup- what I did was stole a large tin heat shield off a scrap car and used "standoffs" in the trans tunnel to mount it. The biggest issue is that i have a notched tunnel which sits literally 1/4 inch from the test pipe-- not exactly something that you can shield from heat-- my only solution in this area was fiberglass wrap on the exhaust, along with hopes and dreams. I have tried finding some detailed pictures of peoples shielding solutions in the trans tunnel/footwell but can only get verbal explanations-- my solution is not perfect and its close to what other people have described.
I appreciate your input. I read a bunch and it seems like the biggest issue with people blowing up stock motors is DET (readoor tuning). I think running corn will allow me to extend the life of a stock motor-- its pretty readily available around me (3 stations withing a 25 minute drive). I do not spend more than 1 hour on the track at a time (more like 30-40min each run), so I dont need a build for an enduro.



I am probably going to start aggregating VVT swap info in here soon.
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:21 PM   #115
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Ok. Time to start thinking of a plan and get some questions answered. Hustler, since you went through this recently, hopefully you can chime in with some info.

Plan: To swap in the VVT motor as cheaply as possible. My motor has 145k on it and is starting to tick like hell when its cold. Cheap because I want to spend as much $$ this season on seat time. I plan to strip as much as I can out of the car now. More power plus more lightness = more fun!

Car is a stock '95 m-edition. Only "power" mod is a JR header. I have an '01 VVT longblock with less than 40k miles on it that i picked up locally for 400 bucks. I may or may not tear the motor down and rebuild just since its been sitting for a while. This does NOT have injectors or a throttle body on it. I have the engine harness as well.

-- remove tumblers and jbweld holes. Block EGR stuff.
-- modify the '95 fuel rail and rotate FPR to fit. I have seen this in a couple other threads as a solution. We will see if I can source a cheap '99 fuel rail and go that direction.

--Swap in '95 oil pressure sender. May completely omit this and just use oil pressure gauge.

-- Use the '01 coils

-- Get a cold air intake solution. Still using stock airbox.

-- should think about mazdacomp motor mounts-- I am not sure what the age is of the mounts in there currently.

Wiring-- this is information acquired from other threads. I didnt write most of it.

---The cam/crank wiring. The OEM CAS has a 4-wire connector - you have a +12v, a ground, a cam sensor wire, and a crank sensor wire. Feed +12v and Ground to both of the NB sensors, hook up the cam signal to the cam sensor, and the crank signal to the crank sensor.

---The VVT signal wire. Grab +12v from the injector harness and then run your own wire for the signal to the control solenoid. There is no polarity, so hook up the +12v to either pin. ?????? In another thread someone says For VVT you run a single wire back to the MS3x db37. I assume this will vary depending on the use of ms3 vs vvtuner?

----TPS and IAC pigtails. The IAC is easy, since there's no polarity, but you'll need to pay attention to which wire goes where on the TPS connector. Each car has slightly different wire colors so there's no color-by-numbers for this one. I will usually hook it up temporarily, confirm the TPS function, and then make the connections permanent.

--Coil wiring. Just hook up the wires as you otherwise would, and then use your ECU to drive the tachometer. Using '01 coils with this.


ECU?

I want to get the cheapest solution possible. I have been looking at all of the different MS variants and cant figure out what I need. I do NOT plan to go turbo with this ecu. I want to go as cheap as possible and be able to run the VVT. I am buying pre-built-- not willing to build my own box.

I have been looking into a reverant built box, but I am not sure what I need. I like the fact that ms2 is more mature and appears to be a bit cheaper, but it doesnt appear any ms2 variant has VVT control without the VVTuner? For $200 for the vvtuner, might as well buy a ms3 right?




Questions I still need to answer or stuff I am still not 100% sure with.

--I think I read that I do not need a coolant reroute with this motor?

-- Can I use the '95 injectors without any issue? The '01's were not included with my motor.

-- Can I use the '95 throttle body? (jbweld screw).

-- Figure out if I need to get rid of MAF, and if so, what do I need. I assume the answer to this will depend on the ECU choice.

-- ANYTHING I MISSED?

Last edited by stuiephoto; 01-20-2013 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:32 PM   #116
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Questions I still need to answer or stuff I am still not 100% sure with.

--I think I read that I do not need a coolant reroute with this motor?
No reroute necessary on '99-up
-- Can I use the '95 injectors without any issue? The '01's were not included with my motor.
Yes.
-- Can I use the '95 throttle body? (jbweld screw).
Not sure if tb is interchangeable or not.
-- Figure out if I need to get rid of MAF, and if so, what do I need. I assume the answer to this will depend on the ECU choice.
MAF goes away when you add MS.
-- ANYTHING I MISSED?
Does the new MS3 Basic from Reverent have VVT control built in?
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:19 PM   #117
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Does the new MS3 Basic from Reverent have VVT control built in?
Thanks. I did some research and im pretty sure na/nb of the throttle bodies are interchangeable.

The basic ms3 does have native vvt control. Ill have to get one priced out. REALLY dont want to spend 800 dollars on an ecu but this is probably the best option for me.

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Old 02-21-2013, 03:17 AM   #118
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Stumbled across this thread in google images. Subbed. This is my local track too, never seen your car there.
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Old 02-21-2013, 03:45 AM   #119
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Stumbled across this thread in google images. Subbed. This is my local track too, never seen your car there.
They have so many track days there, its not surprising we havent seen each other. I only made it to a couple CSCS events last season and like 4 open lapping days. Hoping to make all of the CSCS events this year.

First event this year is running with the PCA DE at Watkins Glen on may 27-28.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:23 AM   #120
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Thanks. I did some research and im pretty sure na/nb of the throttle bodies are interchangeable.

The basic ms3 does have native vvt control. Ill have to get one priced out. REALLY dont want to spend 800 dollars on an ecu but this is probably the best option for me.
Welcome to the slippery slope,
I have a similar package to what you have, exept you have the Xidas and i am on Spec Miata bilsteins. The VVT engine adds lots of usable torque. On my car at my local track, two 2nd gear corners are now 3rd gear corners.

For a track car, the MS3 unit is a better route to go than the one I have (DIYPnP & VVTuner). Look at the units that Reverant sells, he has helped me out with issues on my unit, that is not one of his. One of the benifits is being able to have your injection timing follow the intake cam timing. This is not easily possible with two units.

Also think about a Skunk2 TB (search broken throttle shaft) think of it as an insurance policy. Look up some of Emillio's posts about his cars.
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