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Old 04-02-2014, 07:38 PM   #1
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Default I need some oil cooler assurances

I need some assurances this is a solid plan, buying all this stuff twice gets real expensive. It's time to upgrade my FM oil cooler and stop trying to fix it with aids. My plan is to pick up -10an lines and a 25 row cooler mounted between the IC and radiator. I will reuse the Mocal sandwich plate (with thermostat)

Shiny parts to buy:
Setrab 25 row Series 6 oil cooler
Mocal 1/2" BSP x -10an fittings (2)
-10an hose (8-10')
-10an straight fittings (2)
-10an 90* fittings (2)

Radiator + oil cooler + IC will be ducted and sealed. Top half of the radiator will be ducted and see only fresh air. My goal is something like this.


I know the RX7 cooler is preferred but I don't see any way of fitting it without modifying the front end in ways that make it less than suitable for street use.

I've seen a few posts suggesting that installing a big, quality, oil cooler between the IC and radiator will be sufficient. It needs to support 225whp today and my eventual goal of 275-300whp.

What about braided stainless vs socketless hose? Socketless has a larger ID and is cheaper but the internets suggest is more difficult to install fittings into. Most of you are running stainless, is that because of an easier installation? Something else? Savington runs socketless so I'm not too worried about it falling apart as long as I do it correctly.

Another option I considered is running a horizontal 19 row cooler which exhaust out through the hood latch hole. Much like hustler's install but with the NB I would have a smaller "exhaust port" and most of the cooler wouldn't see much if any air. With the added ducting complexity of this solution and less airflow it seems like a not so good idea.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:18 PM   #2
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I used to run socketless. If you don't assemble it perfectly, it will come apart, and the resulting oil pressure loss is an engine killer. I like stainless for oil.

I prefer Setrab's M22 90* fittings - they eliminate an adapter at the oil cooler.

I have the line, 90* -10AN and M22 fittings, and a 25-row core in stock.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:40 PM   #3
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I never understood the use of socketless hose for engine oil. The highest temperature socketless hose out there is rated to only 300F (most are 250F -- read carefully). That's well within reach of engine oil. I've heard lots of horror stories.
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:17 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
I never understood the use of socketless hose for engine oil. The highest temperature socketless hose out there is rated to only 300F (most are 250F -- read carefully). That's well within reach of engine oil. I've heard lots of horror stories.
Yeah I wouldnt use socketless/push-to-connect hose for engine oil. I used the fragola (which is just parker in different packaging and marked up, no I didnt know that before I bought it) for my catch can lines. Its a major ---- to push on the fittings, but at least you dont bleed like when making up braided stainless line. The outer coating also starts to split when you push it on. I basically went with it as an experiment to see if I liked it. I'd almost be tempted to go to the hydraulic shop and have them make you hoses with crimped ends, the local FRAPS made my 12' long -6AN 3000psi power steering hose for like $60. They should be able to make a hose for you with an M22 90 fitting on one end and a straight -10 JIC on the other with no problem. Thats assuming straights work on the oil cooler side, because with crimped lines you either have to talk the guy at the shop into getting them rotated right, or just be lucky.

I wouldnt get too caught up on 300F though, you're going to find that a lot of braided stainless lines are also only rated to 300F, all setrab's hoses are.
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:20 PM   #5
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Well since it's pretty rare I actually do things correctly, stainless it is. Even still, it's not worth the chance. Sending you a pm. You really like taking my money, don't you.

Aeroquip's socketless and stainless are both rated to 300*f. And yes, I agree there's not much room wiggle room there. You can get to 450*f with the Teflon lined hose, if you're OK with -8n. I'm fairly certain the -8 hose on the FM kit is why I see 8-10psi hot oil pressure at idle.
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:26 PM   #6
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Well since it's pretty rare I actually do things correctly, stainless it is. Even still, it's not worth the chance. Sending you a pm. You really like taking my money, don't you.

Aeroquip's socketless and stainless are both rated to 300*f. And yes, I agree there's not much room wiggle room there. You can get to 450*f with the Teflon lined hose, if you're OK with -8n. I'm fairly certain the -8 hose on the FM kit is why I see 8-10psi hot oil pressure at idle.
I'm sure you can get 500F stainless hose from somewhere, because AN Fittings Direct has it, so some one out there is making it. If they had the M22 direct fitting I would just go that way. Most of my oil and all my fuel lines are from them, because I like to live dangerously and its pretty hard to screw the fittings up and still have them be assemblable.
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Old 04-02-2014, 11:52 PM   #7
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I'm not too worried about the 300* limitation. Just about everyone on this forum and the internet all use 300* rated lines for oil. If it works for them, it should work for me.

Thought about going the local hydraulic shop route, or BAT Inc, but this somehow seems easier. Thanks for all the suggestions though. I was going to order it all from Racer Parts Wholesale but now Andrew gets my money.
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Old 04-03-2014, 12:02 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
I never understood the use of socketless hose for engine oil. The highest temperature socketless hose out there is rated to only 300F (most are 250F -- read carefully). That's well within reach of engine oil. I've heard lots of horror stories.
I can't understand why people use them at all - in 2014 there are simply too many pfte options at comparable prices.

-Zach
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Old 04-03-2014, 12:04 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by thasac View Post
I can't understand why people use them at all - in 2014 there are simply too many pfte options at comparable prices.

-Zach
Because when you look at them (as a newb) they seem a whole lot easier to assembly than that scary braided line stuff.
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:58 AM   #10
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British American Transfer

I am using a slightly different version similar to the FC333. they have both the "elastomer" tube and ptfe tube type hoses.

They also have "kits" you can find on their main site, may get you 20-30 bucks cheaper than normal.
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Old 04-03-2014, 03:26 PM   #11
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I worry about the 250/300F limits on socketless hose not because I'm expecting a hose to split but because you are relying on the strength of the hose to keep the joint together. With standard AN threaded ends or crimped ends, it doesn't matter as much when the hose starts getting soft because it is still being held mechanically.
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Old 04-04-2014, 01:41 AM   #12
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A decent PTFE lined hose is 400-500 deg F capable and inert to essentially every automotive fluid. BMRS, Goodridge, XRP.

Save the socketless for low-criticality stuff.
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Old 04-04-2014, 07:35 PM   #13
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That's a really good point about exceeding the rated temperature on socketless hose with no mechanical retainer. I went with the stainless braided from TSE. Andrew sure makes it easy to buy stuff from, competitive prices and great service. Now if only I could convince him to move closer so shipping is quicker. He even sells an M22-AN 90* fitting for one less potential leak spot coming off the cooler.

JKav posted in my thread. I feel honored.
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