I don't get it. why do you want a custom belt? who doesn't make a 6-point harness with a 2" lap belt and a camlock? Every Scroth 6-point belt other than the clubman is like that. If you can find those things in a $130 belt already, then why are you posting? thats about 1/3 the price of most other 6-points. go fucking buy it.

You are pretty damn close to full retarded right now.

Where in the name of fuck are you seeing a 6 point cam lock harness that isnt g-force for under $160?

Go buy a Schroth Rallye 4 ASM and make sure that you route the breakaway so that it ruptures your scrotum when you lose it at a blistering 35mph when you hit the only lamp post in the parking lot.

you can call simpson for what you want custom made. they don't do the whole dealer makes a custom belt thing. i can tell you it's going to cost more than 130 bucks.

I know the topic of cam locks releasing was brought up. We have had some issues with Corbeau cam locks popping open. I personally experienced this on a corbeau cam lock. driving down the highway and "pop" my harness is undone. Got home cut them out and threw them in the trash. That was the last cheap harness I ever bought.

Can I blow your budget by $10?
http://www.soloperformance.com/Ultra...ss_p_1545.html

Sorry I failed reading comprehension today. Make that $20. And I think it's a 3".
http://www.soloperformance.com/Ultra...s-_p_1546.html


Edit- verified on website it's a 3"

6 Things You Need to Consider Before Buying Harnesses - OG Racing Blog

here are 6 things to consider when looking at harnesses. this link will be added to first post.

While casually paroosing the latest fasttrack.

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...k-Sept%201.pdf

Recommended Items for 2015
The following subjects will be referred to the Board of Directors for approval. Address all comments, both for and against,
to the Club Racing Board. It is the BoD’s policy to withhold voting on a rules change until there has been input from the
membership on the presented rules. Member input is suggested and encouraged. Please send your comments via the form at
www.clubracingboard.com.

GCR
1. #14272 (Richard Patullo) Seat Belt Expiration
Change 9.3.19.G.1.: 1. Restraint systems meeting SFI 16.1 or 16.5 shall bear a dated SFI Spec label. The certification
indicated by this label shall expire on December 31st of the 5th year after the date of manufacture as indicated by the
label. If for example the manufacture date is 2014 the fifthyear after the date of manufacture is 2019.

Now this is interesting.

Speaking of interesting, someone is selling a G-Force camlock belt in the For Sale section, Leafy. It has your name on it.

That is interesting. now SCCA autocross harnesses must be under 5 years old.. Before they didnt have a date required.

CLUB RACING BOARD

I'm looking i don't see it under club racing board. what page?

Take it easy on the caps..

Page 14, sorry, caps lock was on for work.

TLDR: Have Cobra Sebring. Can't get it fit in the car or on me. Interested in Racetech 4009HR. Have you seen it in a miata?

Question: Has anyone seen a Racetech RT4009HR in a miata before? Does it fit with a decent amount of rake to it?

Purpose: Enduro racing w/ 2 hour driver stints.
Want: I want to move up to a composite halo seat.

Frame to Fit: I'm 5'10"ish and 185. 34/36 waist or so. Average proportions on frame.

Background:
My first seat was a Ultrashield Pro Road Race 10°. Love the way I fell INTO the seat, the fit around the waist, ribs etc. I had the entire seat mounted at about 20°. It was perfect.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1409115889
Ultrashield Catalog - Road Race Seats - Standard Road Race Seats - Pro Road Race Seat

I went to the local SCCA Majors event in April/May and sat in several seats, and decided on the Cobra Sebring (not the ultralite shown in the picture).

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1409115889
Sebring Pro - Cobra Seats
However in 2008ish there was a design change that apparently made my 2014 seat not the same as the 2007 seat I sat in. I don't fit in the new design.

Current State:
I wasn't afraid to notch the tunnel, so I cut it out and still can't get the seat to clear the main hoop gusset (because the halo is too wide), or square with the wheels/pedals while still far enough back to not be "on the wheel". I don't like how the shoulder wings push my shoulders forward (awkard) and I feel like I'm on the seat and not in it. When I pull the cushions out, I'm down in the seat (not comfortable though) but then I'm too low for my harnesses to be installed correctly (below my harness bar). Need to get rid of the Sebring quickly and find something else that WORKS!

Future State:
While at the Majors, I sat in a Racetech 19 (that's all of the model code he knew) and I liked it. Has anyone see one in a miata with a spec miata type cage? Did it have a decent amount of rake to it? I would prefer first hand experience over conjecture.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1409115889]

Racetech RT4009HR : Racetech USA
I'm guessing the seat is 4009 because I don't remember it having the air vent like the 4019 did.

I've got a question for you . I'm 6.0 220 with 36 waist, wide shoulders and I found a seat that fits me well ( ultra-shield road race ) but after reading the possible spinal in jury's with aluminum seat with back braces .Ive kind of steered myself to a seat like a sparco sprint 5 . Now I know I can't fit a sparco sprint 5 due to my size ,so my question really is .... What is a good seat that will fit me and still fit in the miata ?

Currently using a Cobra Suzuka on GarageStar seat bracket. Racequip 3" 6 point camlock harness. Seat is very comfortable, but isn't lining up to the steering wheel (about 1" off center) which isn't the end of the world. I think my seat is the wider version so it's not ideal for me (28 waist size).

I have a brand new Momo Supercup which I'm going to install when I have some spare time. Tried sitting in it and it seemed really nice. Won't know for sure until it's installed.

Anyone know what non-boxed in seats might be safer than stock? Like the OMP Style, or the Recaro Specialist? Just where you can turn 90 degrees to get out.

I dont see why an aluminum seat cant be safe. Hundreds of roundy rounders in marginally or well installed aluminum seats crash every year and normally in significantly more violent crashes than you typically get on a road course and there's never been a big outcry against the aluminum seats in that community. Follow the manufacturer's instructions on install and I dont see how it would be unsafe.

Lies.

ANY seat can be installed in an unsafe manner.

Personally, I love my US SM16. Just came off 3 solid days of track time in it. Fits like a glove.

Please don't look to short tracks as how to be safe. they hold over 50% of the deaths in motorsport within the last 25 years. that's including rallying, autocross, club racing, Professional road racing.

Quote from the charlotte observer
More than 520 people have died in U.S. auto racing in past 25 years | CharlotteObserver.com

Six Shooter. it's not lies. Aluminum seats Can be safe but they need to be mounted correctly. Using a back brace that is made to make an expired FIA seal legal, is not the correct way to brace an aluminum seat.
Aluminum seats need to be tied into the roll cage. the anchoring bars located on the seat needs to go along the shoulders. 2 anchoring points need to extend off of the anchoring bar to the roll cage. Putting a single bar and locating it at the middle of the spine is a huge no no. But almost all racing sanctioning bodies allow this..

check out this video. @30 sec you see how an aluminum seat reacts in a crash

They also probably consist of 95% of the car to car and car to barrier contact and 90% of the hard impacts and roll overs of American motorsports over that same time period.

Yeah, when someone brings facts and statistics into an argument, straight-up conjecture is a great counter-argument.

Leafy,
If you would go to a short track and see what they require (as far as safety equipment) you would not be surprised by the statistics.

I'm not. Iron Man is the best class ever, no cage, stock belts, stock seat, just smash the glass out, cut the exhaust off and throw on a helmet and you're good to go.

HAHAH when i first saw that class my eyes started to bleed.

the R100 IS very nice for a miata application. lots of pictures of them in miatas floating around. i sat in one for about 4 hours during my Training. very comfortable seat.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1409676104

So we've determined that an improperly mounted aluminium seat can cause injury but an improperly mounted fiberglass seat is safe? Or that they are both dangerous when improperly mounted and both safe when properly mounted?


I've been to lots of circle track events and driven in a couple many years ago. They are pretty tight on competitive advantage but don't look into the safety gear worth a damn. The attitude is that you are risking your own neck. They will check roll cage construction but that's to keep people from cheating on weight.

Sufficiently improper mounting of any safety equipment will kill you.

Any seats getting loose or distorted does not make a good platform for the belt to do it's job, the main safety function of the seat.

Both are dangerous when improperly mounted. But you're more likely to see an improperly mounted aluminum seat because they require you to drill your own holes, provide your own fasteners, and are generally cheaper than the comparable composite seat and thus more likely to be hacked.

I will fully admit that I wouldnt run my seat how its currently mounted on a road course but I'd have no second thoughts running it on the street. And thats with 4 properly sized bolts to a steel frame to the stock sliders with large fender washers preventing tearout, and no upper back mounts. Upper back mounting would be required for me to want to run it on a road course.

I don't dislike my Buddy Club Racing seats, but they are a little tight around my lats/shoulders. I wish I could find a wider seat that fits with door bars. As it is now, I can't see many seats fitting unless I really modify the transmission tunnel and or make custom door bars.

The thigh bolsters are what interfere with the door bars. If I could make some custom door bars that were about 4" higher, seems like I could snake a seat with a wider base in.

It's a shame that vendors are directing you away from an aluminum seat or that you otherwise have some kind of bias against them. The UltraShields are light, fit with lots of room in a Miata and are extremely safe when correctly installed. Unlike composite seats, they don't deteriorate in sunlight. They're also made in Tyler, TX. After my experience with them, I would honestly never consider a composite seat.

I find it funny that they are. At the autox I last went to, almost every car that had an aftermarket seat had one that was aluminum. Almost all the aluminum ones were ultrashields as well.

For a full-on race car on a privateer budget, aluminum seems the way to go. Properly braced in the back they should be equal or better than composite. The seat is only one component; harnesses, helmet and HANS combined make a much bigger impact on safety. Pun intended.

The best bang for your buck seems to be an Ultrashield seat with halo, Ultrashield 6 point camlock and HANS device (pick one that works).

BTW, it looked like the aluminum halo in that Simpson video didn't have a horizontal brace. FWIW composite would have done the same.

We are a kirkey dealer. I will direct all of my customers away from the Kirkey economy. It has no lateral support and will snap your ribs in an impact. I direct people away from products that are unsafe, it's because we care about our customers. DO NOT imply that there is ulterior motives to this, that simple statement could cost a life.

For the Record an aluminum seat can be safe. It takes more effort to mount the seat properly. Short track racing is not an example i would use for how to use safety gear. NASCAR is an excellent example. plenty of the nationwide teams use aluminum seats, But how it is mounted is critical in it's application.

Both are dangerous when improperly mounted. it is easier and simpler to mount a FIA seat. you can't just bottom mount an Kirkey and expect it to work. you'll need to tie it into your roll bar. also you can't just use a seat back brace meant for expired FIA seats. those sit at the base of your spine. Brian@ RAcetech seats reported to me, an event At VIR. A participant went backwards into a tire wall and snapped his spine. DOA at the hospital. you need to brace an aluminum seat across the shoulders.

Next time you're in those seats bounce your head against the headrest. Feel how easy the head rest moves.. then imagine you're in a fairly normal 30g rear impact with a Tire wall. your 8lbs head will have 240lbs of force on that head rest. if your fat friends can stand on it without it moving then i would consider it safe.

do you want to retract that statement now or after the video?

RaceTech makes great shit, and their halo absolutely flexed during impact. NOT as much as a non-braced aluminum halo, but flexed nontheless. Cost no object, I'd buy their seats over Sparco, Recaro, Cobra.

The big point of the video is that the back of the seat was braced to the roll cage. Do this with any material seat and you'll be safer.

FIA composite seats are not meant to be back braced unless specified by the manufacturer. They are supposed to flex in an impact to absorb the energy of the impact.

Absolutely. Also Racetechs seats Exceeded the FIA standard of 25g's. they kept testing them and they withstood 80g's.

The difference between aluminum and fiberglass/carbon. the fiberglass will bend and react. It slows the occupants motion, while absorbing the energy and then react. Aluminum will just bend.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1409763176 You can see "after" of FIA seats in the video.

You're the one starting daily "Let's Discuss" threads on products you sell. People will imply what they want. :dealwithit:

I'll say it again, I think you do a disservice by advocating so strongly against aluminum seats. In many cases, an aluminum seat will be a better, safer solution in a Miata for one simple reason . . . they FIT! They're easy to mount and properly brace. They can be mounted so that the seat system is easy to service and inspect.

What I often see with composite seats and Miatas is that they just don't fit, and people end up bashing car structure and taking shortcuts to somehow get them in. They get so frustrated that they'll accept compromised seating positions and mounts. And once they're in, they never want to touch or inspect them again, or do things like replace them or add back braces when they expire. Maintainability is an important facet of safety.

The fit/inspection/mounting aspect is the main reason I've got aluminum seats in my car. I'm extremely happy with them. I did a lot of research while planning my mounting system, and then welded my own. You could lift my car from the headrests. I'd recommend ButlerBuilt's website for guidance (ButlerBuilt Professional Seat Systems). Some really good stuff over there.

In a larger car, I probably would have gone composite. Don't know.

If I were allowed to, I would get a custom made alu seat with all the options I could fit.
The simple reason is that all the reasonable FIA seats are 5points, not allowing a proper installation of a 6point belt, unless your crotch fills a really large volume. Just to clarify, 6pt means crotch straps goes rearward in an angle without rubbing against the edges of the holes.

A new FIA 8862-2009 seat for $4-5k or a Kidney for less than $1k?
And I'm pretty sure you will not be able to fit a FIA 8862-2009 seat in a miata, they look to be made for DTM and similar, where the cabin structure is built starting with the seat.

And if your body is nonstandard in any way (e.g. tall back), an off the shelf seat will always be less than perfect.
Taking the risk of being trapped in a bent/compressed alu seat compared of having the belt work as it should during the initial impact...

what? Fia seats accept 6 point harnesses.

99% of the Fia Seats cost less than 1k. I have kirkey full containment seats that are over 1k...

Aluminum seats can be safe if properly mounted and you have the correct seat for your application. I recommend FIA seats based upon the ease of the insulation. A FIA seat, Road racing is the recommended application.

Two Fia Seats mounted in a 99 miata.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.n...b0aaffd299690a

"accepts" but you have to install them as 5point unless you are "full bodied".
In my case I have more than one inch of seat between my crotch and the rear edge of the hole in the seat bottom. No way to get the proper angles for a 6pt install.

It's only the newer FIA 8862 seats that are properly prepared for 6pt harnesses. It's a little sad, especially when you mention this to sales reps which response usually are "no customer have mentioned this before".

Am I that strangely built, tall back and small crotch?

My current OMP ARS works somewhat, but the back could have been 1-2 inch higher, and the 5th belt hole 2 inches further back. That the shoulder wing has been modified towards the door is just a normal miata compromise (so it's not FIA anymore...).

your problem seems to be with the harness not the seat. Every manufacturer has a different take on how to mount a 6 point. the fact that you might not have adequate room under your seat needs to be taken into consideration. Next time determine what harness would allot you ample room.

Schroth
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1409780126
Simpson
http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/a...0&d=1282596108

Oh yeah, the Schrott harness I have is crap, I know.

The problem is that a harness should NEVER put forces over an edge in the seat.
Even if I would disregard that I would not be able to get the 6pt crotch straps to run down the inside of the thighs on each side of my junk, it would only go slightly forward down the hole.

Harness is the right one,
Mounting in the car is free (can be modified a lot, floor lowered etc),
Hole in the seat is in the wrong location, and seat cannot be modified.

Which of the three would you blame for a less than perfect install (my body is what it is)?

You are right, we do cover products that we sell. I've also recommended products that we don't. I've also Recommended not buying products that we sell based upon wrong application. I'll Say this one more time aluminum seats can be safe if you have the correct seat for your application and it's mounted correctly. A Kirkey Economy (that i Do sell) has no place in a road race car. it has no lateral support. if you slide off track sideways into concrete, your harness and seat will do very little to protect you.

a Sub belt does bend around the hole in the seat. A sub strap is a locating strap. it will not carry as much load as a lap belt or shoulder straps. it's only job is to keep the harness on your hips. the other straps are not allowed to bend around the seat. if you're having trouble with the harness around the boys look into a formula harness. I have one in my miata, it's a royal Pain in the ass to get in and out of. once your in you can barely tell it's on.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1409781430

And that description is a 5pt install, where the crotch straps only function is to keep the lock down and prevent submarining by making the lap belt do their job with the hip bone.

Well show me the correct way to mount an aluminum seat in a miata . I have found I/O Port Seat Back Brace and they recommend mounting 2 per seat and a Brey Krause Seat Back Brace....

We have covered it many times already. I'll post more links for you.
http://www.circletrack.com/safety/ct...ustom_install/
http://www.circletrack.com/safety/ct..._seat_install/
http://www.circletrack.com/safety/ct...g/viewall.html

FYI adding all of that additinal support + the cost of the seat. a Fia seat will be less expensive.
Kirkey 47 Road race seat.. $241.99
Seat cover for 47 RR seat $234.99
Brey Krause Sport Seat Back Brace $110
i/o Seat back brace X2 $220
total 806.98

a OMP WRC-R (that easily fits into a miata) is 779.00
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1409843608

Sorry for the bump from the dead but i was going thru some old posts and noticed this comment from hornetball. i needed to respond to have it on the books. i only suggest FIA seats for the eases of installation. it's much harder to install the Aluminum seats correctly. @ OG we do sell aluminum seats. but if you have no plans on taking the car to the fabricator (or fabricating mounts yourself) then a FIA seat is the way to go. Leafy hit the nail on the head, thank you sir.

the season is coming up. anyone have questions over seats or harnesses?

Kind of off topic, but can you recommend a good 3 point for a street truck build?

And do those schroth profi 4 pts really work?

avoid the 4 points at all costs. I know schroth says they are safe. In their own video you can see the hip strap entering the dummy's gut. a 25 mph bump could be fatal as your gut can only take 3g's for force before internal damage. for reference your hips can take well over 50g's. that locating Sub strap is imperative.

for a street/track builds i encourage having the 3 point and 5/6 point harnesses.

For an HPDE car would you ever recommend buying new in box but out of date 5/6 point harnesses?

That all depends on where the box was. Sunlight and weather can deteriorate a harness and that is the majority of the reasons harnesses and belts have an expiration date. Just make sure that the harness came from a warehouse that was kept mildly climate controlled (above freezing), and wasn't on display (sitting out in the sun). If you know the history then i don't see a problem. It would be better alternative to a 4 point.

Factory 3pt is better than 4pt, but properly secured 5 or 6pt is best.

For a car that will be stored outdoors, remember that black pigment in plastic does not allow damaging UV radiation to travel as deeply into a material before being stopped as some other colors and therefore does last slightly longer. It doesn't effect expiration dates or anything, but if you aren't in a sanctioned race it doesn't matter.

More important to me it that the harnesses are mounted with large backing plates if mounted in the sheet metal of the car. A big zinc washer under the nut isn't enough.

well said. Didn't know that about the black pigment, but will share. :idea:

Whoa!! Might need a bit more data there Six.

It does make sense to me that black inhibits penetration because it's such a great absorber. It's turning photons into heat, quickly.

But it is also absorbing more of the photons rather than reflecting them in the first place. You're into airplanes. You know something like a Velocity doesn't get painted black.

Overall result . . . I'm not sure? Is there test data somewhere we can reference?

It seems applying the above would be tricky at best.