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Lets Discuss Seats and Harnesses.
lets discuss seats and harnesses. When we have access to thousands of harness and seat combinations. Does anyone have any questions regarding seats and/or harnesses?
OG Racing Blog: 6 things to consider when buying a harness |
LUV my UltraShields. Everybody get some. Keeps the boys in Tyler busy (they're either welding UltraShields or Natural Gas Field Service parts). 'MURICA!
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Kirkeys for me. They hold my ass just right.
I'm using latch and link belts that seem to confuse nearly everybody who rides with me. But then again I've seen people fumble with camlock harnesses as well. |
Find me a seat comparable to a lotus exige seat or the sparco roadster that is 5 point harness compatible, fits in a miata, and does not cost $800+ each. I have found all of one seat that fits this description and a recent review tells me the cloth cover is not of the best quality. It is the exige repl8ca by infinit fab.
I need something with easy ingress and egress for DD use with the capability of harnesses for the track. |
Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1140372)
Kirkeys for me. They hold my ass just right.
I'm using latch and link belts that seem to confuse nearly everybody who rides with me. But then again I've seen people fumble with camlock harnesses as well. |
Kirkey. I stupidly bought the 20° layback and have been wanting the 10° since the day I installed it. BUT it still the most comfortable seat ever with a bit of extra foam under the bump and in the lower back area. I do wish someone made an FIA seat with the same shape, I hate shoulder wings.
The downside to the kirkey is that people made me cut the rib breakers off, and I really liked them. With the rib breakers removed I kind of want to go to a harness but I can stomach the extra 80lbs that entails. Maybe if I get a new seat and keep the rib breakers I'll pull some more weight out going to just lap belts. |
It took Ultrashield 11 weeks to ship my seat. If I didn't already have one and wanted to have matching seats I would have gone elsewhere. Their seats are nice but that's way too long to wait.
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After fighting with a couple of seats and distributors not understanding a proper 6 point mount, I'd go for a custom Kirkey (or similar) to get everything just right.
Now I have to have a FIA sticker on the seat so that's a no-go, sadly, so I have to be happy with my OMP ARS. Tall back, but removing the rear humps and the rear bolt of the L's through the floor makes it work. |
Have used a Cobra Suzuka (loved it) and now a Sparco Circuit (works but not as comfortable but halo).
For harnesses, best I've used is my Schroth Profi II for HANS. Works great, easy to adjust. |
I've had corbeau fx1 pros(comfy but didn't fit well at all), Lotus Elise 05 seats non probax(fit like a glove and looked great! Uncomfortable as shit), NA seats defoamed in my NB(Comfy, just not ideal), Kirkeys, fit my ass like a glove and didn't break the bank. My only complaint is my harness's, I need some padding on them otherwise they like to cut into my neck.
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Originally Posted by midpack
(Post 1140420)
It took Ultrashield 11 weeks to ship my seat. If I didn't already have one and wanted to have matching seats I would have gone elsewhere. Their seats are nice but that's way too long to wait.
I used to hate on aluminum seats (and pretty much anything that wasn't a Recaro), but after cheaping out and putting a miatacage kit in my car, I've been fighting non-stop to find a seat that doesn't interfere with my main hoop. I finally bit the bullet and bought an Ultrashield SM, and I'm surprised at how well I like it. I do miss the shoulder wings, though. I'm thinking pretty hard about trying an Ultrashield Pro Road Race. |
I'm running an Ultrashield Pro Road Race with a Racequip 6 point cam lock Hans harness. No complaints. Seat is very comfortable. Contemplating moving to the passenger and greeting an Ultrashield with Halo
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Same experience, bought out of AA stock and had my US SM seats in a couple of days. I find the US seats incredibly comfortable. No big deal to drive the car long distances if needed.
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Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1140416)
The downside to the kirkey is that people made me cut the rib breakers off, and I really liked them. With the rib breakers removed I kind of want to go to a harness but I can't stomach the extra 80lbs that entails. Maybe if I get a new seat and keep the rib breakers I'll pull some more weight out going to just lap belts.
Anyways, I have Ultrashield seats and belts. I purchased one seat at a time, and did not have to wait long for either seat. I purchased them from Race Day Safety. |
After doing a Kirkey install for someone and basically bending the seat into the shape to make it fit in their application, I just have a mental block when thinking about using an aluminum seat. Don't like it. If I can bend the thing into shape, forces in impact can do a lot more.. Understand that it's supposed to be safe if installed correctly but there's a lot more ways you can get it wrong with the install for an aluminum seat and have an unsafe setup as a result. And a serious back brace is an absolute must for them.
I like my Sparco Circuit enough, got it for a great deal second-hand that I couldn't pass up. Definitely wouldn't want it for a daily due to the high side bolsters obviously. The seat I'd pick if I switched would be the Cobra Evolution hands down, I've driven in one and it's an awesome seat. -Ryan |
Originally Posted by jpreston
(Post 1140456)
It seems like that's the norm if you order direct from Ultrashield. I ordered my Ultrashield SM seat from Advanced Autosport (after Ultrashield telling me it would be a 10-12 week wait) and had it in a couple days. Looks like OG Racing is an Ultrashield vendor too.
Thanks for the tip about Advanced Autosport. I like supporting SPS since they are local but not if it means it takes 11x as long to get something to my door. What I really want is whatever Emilio had in Crusher circa 2012. Super comfortable and tons of leg and headroom. I'm certain just one costs more than both of my seats combined though. |
Originally Posted by miata2fast
(Post 1140502)
80 pounds?? How in the hell do you figure that. I know you have to have some kind of harness bar, but I have to think you can get it done much lighter than that.
Anyways, I have Ultrashield seats and belts. I purchased one seat at a time, and did not have to wait long for either seat. I purchased them from Race Day Safety. |
I shoehorned some used sparco pro2000's in mine and couldn't be happier... till i have to get out.
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Pretty sure Emilio uses OMP Grips mostly. Plus, Crusher's roll cage was 100% custom fitted -- lots of room.
I see people running aluminum seats without proper back bracing all the time. Drives me nuts. People who should know better too. The US mounts and back brace I did on the Red car are really working well so far. I could probably lift the car from the seats. LOL. |
Originally Posted by ThePass
(Post 1140512)
After doing a Kirkey install for someone and basically bending the seat into the shape to make it fit in their application, I just have a mental block when thinking about using an aluminum seat. Don't like it. If I can bend the thing into shape, forces in impact can do a lot more.. Understand that it's supposed to be safe if installed correctly but there's a lot more ways you can get it wrong with the install for an aluminum seat and have an unsafe setup as a result. And a serious back brace is an absolute must for them.
I still dislike seat back braces, though. Almost all racecar safety devices are designed to stretch/flex/bend/crumple to absorb energy and slowly decelerate the body. The seat should be able to do the same in a rear impact. I get the need for brace with a flexy aluminum seat, but I think there at least needs to be some high density foam between the seat and the metal back brace. |
I put an OMP harness in my car last year, it is fantastic. Would definitely recommend it. My UltraShield seat is okay, too, although I wouldn't say that it is amazing or anything; it gets the job done.
robert |
+1 for cobra suzuka. I love mine. I'm also a fan of schroth profi belts. I've got 6 points for driver and pass in my car. My driver side is a 2 inch lap belt 3 shoulder belt version and the lap belts are pull up. Passenger side is 3/3 and pull down.
2" lap belt pull up harnesses = win. Everything else is poverty level (to steal a page out of the book of hustler) uncomfortable. :fawk: |
Since I saw them mentioned earlier in the thread... latch and link had its day in the sun, but there are now SFI approved camlocks for $100 for the budget builds. There's no reason to use that dinosaur tech any more.
Originally Posted by EErockMiata
(Post 1140650)
+1 for cobra suzuka. I love mine. I'm also a fan of schroth profi belts. I've got 6 points for driver and pass in my car. My driver side is a 2 inch lap belt 3 shoulder belt version and the lap belts are pull up. Passenger side is 3/3 and pull down.
2" lap belt pull up harnesses = win. Everything else is poverty level (to steal a page out of the book of hustler) uncomfortable. :fawk: -Ryan |
Originally Posted by ThePass
(Post 1140695)
Since I saw them mentioned earlier in the thread... latch and link had its day in the sun, but there are now SFI approved camlocks for $100 for the budget builds. There's no reason to use that dinosaur tech any more.
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I've got latch and links. It's what I started out with in aviation decades ago and I trust it. So, maybe I'm a dinosaur?
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Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1140707)
The good part of a latch and link is that it will never pretend to be latched and will always unlatch, you cant really say the same thing about a $100 GFarce.
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Not saying they don't work well enough in a crash, they're certainly proven in that regard. But I'd never want to have to use them every time I got in and out of my car. I bought a miata last year to flip, budget-track build sort of car, and it had a latch and link. Drove it around a few times during the time I had it and never got used to how clunky and old-school it all felt.
Comparing the low-end SFI camlocks may be a bad choice, I don't think I'd ever choose to use a G-Farce (lol) either, the direction of thought in my mind is more that if you look at the proper camlock systems out there now, with all the details and thought put into them, there's so many things that contribute to both a nicer user experience day to day as well as a safer and more comprehensive system for all of the variables of a crash, that latch and links just look seriously outdated in comparison. -Ryan |
One of the main things I like about the schroth belts are that the cam locks are on the sub belts. I assume other manufacturers do this as well but it's a nice feature.
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I havent seen one mentioned yet, but I have a Sparco EVO. I love it. Super comfy for double duty. I daily'd with it for almost two years early on. We have cheapo Kirkeys in the autoX car. They do what they need to, and aren't totally uncomfortable with the foam pad/cover.
Schroth built, Sparco labeled harnesses in my car. 3"/3" camlock. +1 to everything said above about Schroth quality and camlock convenience. G-farce in the Autocross car. I actually use them alot more than my Schroths because of the in/out/in/out nature of co-driving autoX and they arent bad. For less than half the cost of my Schroth stuff, I would probably buy them again for a similar project. |
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The question of aluminum seats safety was brought up. Aluminum seats bend as they absorb the energy from a crash. Fiberglass/carbon FIA seats do a better job of absorbing the impact, and will do a better job of keeping your head and shoulders in line. Your body can absorb a large amount of G forces if you keep your head and shoulders in line.
If you are going to run an aluminum seat in i would highly suggest gusseting it to the roll cage/bar in as many places as you can. We strongly recommend you avoid back braces similar to this one. we have had reports of individuals going into a wall backwards with these seat braces and suffering major spinal cord injuries. http://www.stableenergies.com/images/sbb.jpg |
Ok I will play.
I have two Sparco Pro 2000 seats (different versions/years) that came with my 91. One has a 6pt harness and one does not (passenger). My goal this winter is to swap the seats (passenger is larger). I would like both to have a 5pt or 6pt setup, it just seems like the way to go with the roll bar. I would like to get a harness that is easily adjustable for my passenger. My current 6pt harness has shoulder adjustment, but doing the lower belts is a PITA. I like the idea of having something that the passenger can adjust when they get into the car. If my bank account is nice to me, I might replace my driver's harness as well. Nothing is wrong with it, but I am thinking black might be a better route, as it draws less attention when I am on the street. Any advice on what you have? |
Originally Posted by OGRacing
(Post 1141420)
Racetech Seat Back-mounting Philosophy - YouTube
Racetech has some very igood information on FIA rated seats Thanks for those vids OG. The back brace in the Racetech vid is a good, simple design that at least personally I'd consider the mandatory minimum for any aluminum seat. It's a shame that most rulebooks don't go into any detail about back brace design - and the result is the kind of cheap/easy to mfg/easy to install brace you mentioned there that doesn't cut it being used all too often. I also like about that vid that it shows a properly designed back brace has a place even on a composite seat, it's not just a band-aid for out-of-date seats. Since my Sparco Circuit is now out of date I've had building a back brace on the very long to-do list, I'm going to move that up the list and get that done. edit:
Originally Posted by OGRacing
(Post 1141420)
15 Minutes Can Save Your Life - YouTube
^ this video at 0:30 shows a crash in a aluminum seat and how that seat bends. -Ryan |
Originally Posted by Mazduh
(Post 1140432)
I've had corbeau fx1 pros(comfy but didn't fit well at all)..
I read up on the Targa install of hte FX1 and I figured if it fit in an NA it would probably fit in an NB. EDIT: You'll forgive me for not considering the clubroadster seat thread a source of authority on the matter.. |
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Originally Posted by ofspunk7
(Post 1141428)
Ok I will play.
I have two Sparco Pro 2000 seats (different versions/years) that came with my 91. One has a 6pt harness and one does not (passenger). My goal this winter is to swap the seats (passenger is larger). I would like both to have a 5pt or 6pt setup, it just seems like the way to go with the roll bar. I would like to get a harness that is easily adjustable for my passenger. My current 6pt harness has shoulder adjustment, but doing the lower belts is a PITA. I like the idea of having something that the passenger can adjust when they get into the car. If my bank account is nice to me, I might replace my driver's harness as well. Nothing is wrong with it, but I am thinking black might be a better route, as it draws less attention when I am on the street. Any advice on what you have? In a miata, avoid any pull up harnesses. They have a tendency to be too long and unable to secure you properly in our small cockpits. In our miata we run the Simpson formula harness. It takes awhile to get buckled in, but once your secure it is very comfortable. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1403205016 Due to our miata's use in auto cross. the constant in/out/in/out we need something that is faster. we will be replacing the current simpson formula with the sparco fia 6 point. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1403205016
Originally Posted by mlev
(Post 1141523)
Can anyone expand on this? I have an fx1 pro on the way, I have side mount brackets, and was going to just bolt the side mounts to some steel and bolt the steel to the floor.
I read up on the Targa install of the FX1 and I figured if it fit in an NA it would probably fit in an NB. EDIT: You'll forgive me for not considering the clubroadster seat thread a source of authority on the matter.. we had a fx1 in our miata before we went to a sparco Pro adv. we had to cut up the fx1 quite badly to get it to fit. now it serves as a video game chair. |
Originally Posted by midpack
(Post 1140516)
I ordered from Solo Performance Systems and it was drop shipped from US. My first one shipped within a week, 3 or 4 years ago, and I expected the same this time but the ship date kept getting pushed back by US. 4 weeks, then 6 then 8 and finally 12. I was really close to ordering a pair of Kirkey's at the 10 week mark but I'm glad to of held out. The seats really are fantastic and surprisingly comfortable. Thanks for the tip about Advanced Autosport. I like supporting SPS since they are local but not if it means it takes 11x as long to get something to my door. What I really want is whatever Emilio had in Crusher circa 2012. Super comfortable and tons of leg and headroom. I'm certain just one costs more than both of my seats combined though. |
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I fell in love with these seats... and then I looked up the price per seat. Then I cried and started looking to see if any miatas showed up in the junkyard with leather :/
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1403273164 |
Originally Posted by OGRacing
(Post 1141573)
We always recommend a FIA harness. They expire in 5 years instead of 2 years(SFI harness) . In the long run it is less expensive to use a FIA harness. if you're looking for easy entry and exit we would recommend a harness that has aluminum adjusters. Tightening and loosening action is silky smooth. The steel adjusters have a tendency to have some resistance, especially when new. out of the brands we carry - simpson, OMP, and sparco all offer aluminum adjusters. take a look and see what fits your price range. www.ogracing.com/car/harnesses
In a miata, avoid any pull up harnesses. They have a tendency to be too long and unable to secure you properly in our small cockpits. In our miata we run the Simpson formula harness. It takes awhile to get buckled in, but once your secure it is very comfortable. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1403205016 Due to our miata's use in auto cross. the constant in/out/in/out we need something that is faster. we will be replacing the current simpson formula with the sparco fia 6 point. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1403205016 The FX1 has a very wide base where your legs exit the seat. the wide leg opening forces the shoulder area into the door. in a miata a BFH is needed to make it fit properly. I had a chance to see keith's car at the mitty this year. i have no idea how he got those seats mounted without cutting the fiberglass. we had a fx1 in our miata before we went to a sparco Pro adv. we had to cut up the fx1 quite badly to get it to fit. now it serves as a video game chair. Is there a specific line of harness that has adjustable mid and lower belts that are easy to access. My current 6pt harness you have to spend a good amount of time under the seat and on the sides of the seat to adjust the belt length. I am not sure if they exist but I would love to have something that is easily adjustable near the center connection point, which would allow for adjustment in a min or two. Thanks for the advice so far. |
Thanks for the input on the FX1 pro.
It's funny, once upon a time, the thought of hammering or cutting or drilling my car was terrifying. I installed my first rollbar and it scared the bajeebers out of me to cut my parcel shelf and drill holes.. and I tried to do everything as minimally as possible. Then I swapped out rollbars on a few cars, and turbo'd my car, and now it's like "wait, you mean all I need to do is hammer on my transmission tunnel a bit, and drill some holes in my floor? What's the big deal?" |
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At the begining of the year i bought a pair of Schroth Profi 6 point. Meanwhile i have not instaled them :loser:
Main reason is that i have Lotus Elise SEATS on my car and need to open the holes for the harness. But since the Elise seats donīt have enought support i think i am going in the corbeau direction. Anyone around here have this ? Corbeau LE-X ;) https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1403279246 |
I really like my seat, it's made for sedan though. Sparco Pro-ADV, require some time to fit it properly in the car and we made custom steering mount from the cage. FIA was mandatory and halo a big plus for me. The car don't really see public roads...
I was to buy sparco HANS with titanium turnbuckle but I tried some Racequip and was sold. FIA, magnesium turnbuckle, aluminum adjusters, pull up lap belts and HANS 2" webbing and all this for half the price compare to sparco's. Happy man, far from Sparco Roadster seats and G Force harnesses that we're in there before... |
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I'm very happy with the Recaro Pole Positions in my car. For the driver's seat, the rear mounts have been cut out, using a custom bracket, bolted to the floor.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1403284351 I have Schroth harnesses with 3 inch shoulder belts -- would go with 2 inch next time for better HANS compatibility. --Ian |
I have sidemount Momo Starts and a Schroth Profi II Hans for the driver, G-Force 3" for the passenger. I don't take out passengers that often, so they can deal with the obnoxious adjusters. The lap and sub belts are a dream on the driver side, even with multiple drivers on a weekend. The Schroth also comes with the mounting hardware so you don't have to buy a dozen extra bits to mount your harnesses.
A+ would buy again. |
Originally Posted by ofspunk7
(Post 1141821)
Is there a specific line of harness that has adjustable mid and lower belts that are easy to access. My current 6pt harness you have to spend a good amount of time under the seat and on the sides of the seat to adjust the belt length. I am not sure if they exist but I would love to have something that is easily adjustable near the center connection point, which would allow for adjustment in a min or two.
Thanks for the advice so far. |
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I was talking to a few miata.net members at Sebring this weekend. For those looking for a high quality, narrow, fia, seat thats under $500. Check out the OMP first-R. (Will be on OG's site shortly. Call for more information.) They fit a 6' 220lbs person and are good seat for us normal sized guys. If your 140lbs you shouldn't have much of a problem finding a seat. They have a narrow shoulder wing and should fit into a interior equipped miata.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1403712606 |
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Schroth Racing 6pt Harness.
I think it is the "clubman" https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1403533154 Here are some crappy cell pics... https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1403533154 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1403533154 |
I'm running:
Driver: Momo Lesmo One with Schroth Profi II Passenger: Sparco Sprint V with Schroth Profi II Driver's seat needs to get lower, but otherwise, things are pretty good. |
OG Racing is a safety equipment sponsor for NASA and one of the guys came down for the event (it happens to be the guy from this forum). It was good meeting you.
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Originally Posted by Mazduh
(Post 1140432)
I've had corbeau fx1 pros(comfy but didn't fit well at all), Lotus Elise 05 seats non probax(fit like a glove and looked great! Uncomfortable as shit), NA seats defoamed in my NB(Comfy, just not ideal), Kirkeys, fit my ass like a glove and didn't break the bank. My only complaint is my harness's, I need some padding on them otherwise they like to cut into my neck.
What were the fitment problems with the FX1 Pros? Like... didn't fit the car well? Or the driver? I'm interested in how to get my A4s sitting lower while still keeping them on sliders. |
Originally Posted by Filipe Dias
(Post 1141847)
Anyone around here have this ? Corbeau LE-X ;) https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1403279246 Oh man those are nice. Do they fit well in the car? What do you have them mounted on? And why doesn't Corbeau show those in the US, dammit? [edit] DERP, just now realize that's not a Miata, shown. I want those damn seats, though. |
Originally Posted by OGRacing
(Post 1141573)
In a miata, avoid any pull up harnesses. They have a tendency to be too long and unable to secure you properly in our small cockpits.
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I've tried my schroths in up and down pull. I find it very hard to tighten the up pull myself. Someone out side the car can do it great, but from the seat, find it tough.
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Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1142532)
Oh man those are nice. Do they fit well in the car? What do you have them mounted on?
And why doesn't Corbeau show those in the US, dammit? [edit] DERP, just now realize that's not a Miata, shown. I want those damn seats, though. Just waiting to sell my Elise Seats so i can order this ones :cool: |
The Corbeau Baja SS seems very functional and inexpensive. Anyone know of any fitment issues? They're intended for offroad, but I sat in one and it was incredibly comfy and very supportive. I picked it up and it seemed suitably light. I think it would make a good race seat if it fits.
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Originally Posted by MINI-P
(Post 1142542)
I have experienced just the opposite with my down pull harnesses. I have trouble getting them tight enough between the seat and the door sill. I was gonna get up pull next. Can you explain why they are harder to tighten than down pull?
Originally Posted by WAM
(Post 1143060)
The Corbeau Baja SS seems very functional and inexpensive. Anyone know of any fitment issues? They're intended for offroad, but I sat in one and it was incredibly comfy and very supportive. I picked it up and it seemed suitably light. I think it would make a good race seat if it fits.
the Down side to those seats is the fabric doesn't like sun. the seats yellowed after 2 years. we can get carbau seat if you call, but we don't stock them as they don't have very many motorsports applications(FIA rated seat). most are for jeeps. |
Do you guys know who makes the harness that has the lap belt adjuster built into the cam lock clip? I saw a latch link like that with extra padding under the adjuster so it it wouldnt dig into you. Looks like a real damn easy way to adjust the lap belt.
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Originally Posted by Leafy
(Post 1143228)
Do you guys know who makes the harness that has the lap belt adjuster built into the cam lock clip? I saw a latch link like that with extra padding under the adjuster so it it wouldnt dig into you. Looks like a real damn easy way to adjust the lap belt.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1403717610 OMP 806 HSLEF SUPER LIGHTWEIGHT PRO RACING HARNESS this was brought to my attention this afternoon. the 805 is a little less $$ than the 806 but the adjusters are movable. You can move them around, set them as pull up or pull down, set one as pull up set the other as pull down. http://www.ogracing.com/media/catalo...-black-web.jpg http://www.ogracing.com/omp-805-hlpf...racing-harness |
^ That's a cool design
No adjusters on the sub straps though :( |
Originally Posted by OGRacing
(Post 1143276)
OMP has the "806" it's built for small GT cars (miata, lotus ect..)
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1403717610 OMP 806 HSLEF SUPER LIGHTWEIGHT PRO RACING HARNESS this was brought to my attention this afternoon. the 805 is a little less $$ than the 806 but the adjusters are movable. You can move them around, set them as pull up or pull down, set one as pull up set the other as pull down. http://www.ogracing.com/media/catalo...-black-web.jpg OMP 805 HLPF LIGHTWEIGHT PRO RACING HARNESS Wow I really like that setup |
I put the OMP 804 setup in my Miata last year. It's the same as the 806 but with 3" straps. It's amazingly nice. Easy to adjust. The best part is that the adjustment locks very positively; once it is set, is isn't going to move. It is wonderful to jump in the car and have it set perfectly every time.
robert |
Originally Posted by ofspunk7
(Post 1143326)
Wow I really like that setup
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