Motion Control Single adjustables installed
 

So I had the opportunity to install some Motion Control Singles on Lazarus with 700/400 rates which I think is a good setup for for a 1900 pound car. Camber numbers ended up at -3 all around at a pinch weld height of 4.5 front and 4.75 rear. I've had the pleasure of tracking on them on my boss's miata and they were fantastic. His were the prototype set for the MCS singles and I have the second revision of the valving now so they should be even better.

I'll be trying them out Monday with 15x8 +32 wheels wrapped in sm6 takeoffs at Portland International Raceway. Previous best at this track was 1:32'dead on ra1 takeoffs with NB bilstein sports with ebay sleeves with 500/400'springs. Car has a big front bar and a stock NA6 rear bar. Goal is to get 1:30 dead or below.

For reference the SM record is a 1:30.506

Thought I would share is with you guys as another potential track suspension option, I'm sure some of you have heard of motion control before if you're pretty serious racers but I don't know whether the majority of the miata community is aware of their existence,

Here's a few photos

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401540996
Installed them
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401540996
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https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1401540996

I'll post back Monday with more info and a proper review, if you guys have any questions let me know, one of the techs at the shop I'm working at this summer has them on his Nb set up for auto cross in STR so I can provide info from that perspective as well. I've also had the pleasure of street driving them on my boss's dual purpose car and they ride phenomenal on the street.

I've heard very, very, very good things about MCS and their stuff.

I know a lot of Grand AM teams are running MCS now that the dampers have been opened up.

I didn't realize they had any offerings for the miata, I'm curious to hear how you like these...

considerably more expensive than the new xida, especially considering they don't come with springs, top hats, Torrington bearings and all that.
I would imagine they are pretty similar. However, the xidas are a sure thing. I doubt they have spent the time and energy to develop these over time as Emilio did with specific applications in mind. And.... Xida=lifetime warranty!
im happy with my first gen xidas for now

I think there was an offering, but it was like 6 grand...this one is supposed to be more reasonable, but definitely in the Xida range from my reading in 2013.

This setup is 3k out the door with springs and top hats. The shop I'm working at has actually been working on developing the miata singles with MCS, we are on the 2nd revision of the valving, this is the second set with that valving. I know that John Man just bought a set of MCS doubles from us which are closer to the 6k price tag you guys assumed. These have been developed specifically with the miata platform in mind. Ill have video and aim Solo data overlay later this week after Monday's track debut.

Fancy stuff for Laz. I like.

you made a joke about "raceland ultimos" in the other thread, I thought to myself "wow that looks like pretty good quality to be raceland"

el oh el

Yeah, I was kidding haha, I really wasn't expecting this to happen at all but the opportunity and timing came up and I don't see myself ever buying another set of coilovers for any miata I'll ever own. The consistency of the dampers is what has impressed me the most so far.

He makes some good points. Miatas are just so cheap on consumables, why track anything else. So even if he goes to a 600hp v8 NB in the future, these will swap right over. Why not get the purchase out of the way and start enjoying them now?

Can't wait to hear the results on Monday! Ill sadly be working.

So Laz is insanely close to the spec miata record for PIR which is 1:30.448. Laz managed a 1:30.947 today on corded SM6s that got progressively more and more terrible. There is a lot left in the car as I'm relearning it with the MCS however it is super consistent and easier to drive after we played with the dampers and sway bar combo today. I'm amazed how well these dampers take light duty off-roading when you go off or when you smack a curb and the car just soaks it up and keeps going.

I gave curly a ride yesterday im sure he can chime in on his perspective. Ill have some videos up soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcqn...ature=youtu.be
Here's a video from session 1, first time out on them, again, if you watch carefully you see how composed the car is over the bumps in a repeatable reliable fashion. I also do some light duty offroading here and the shocks just soaked it all up. I ended up taking the rear sway off after this since I didn't like the overly tail happy nature of the car and it was much easier to drive and went faster too. 1 more video coming up.

Here's my second session, car felt much better and I was really able to attack the curbing but the tires were flatspotted and cording badly at this point already.

Savington was running 1:29's or thereabouts last year during NASA PTE. His car has more power, and perhaps more development.

and..

Oh oh! Xidas!!

and rokkors?

I forgot to mention that Savington is also racing in a class where he is points-regulated. so his car is maybe 2400 lbs and for arguments sake makes 150whp. Laz is maybe 2000 lbs and makes 120ish? There is no apples to apples comparison. I was using it as a target number.

2400# / 136whp at that race

Like I said, I would use Savington as a target, and one that you can see on various tracks. Andrew is a good driver and lays down some fast laps in a nicely developed car.

Laz should be faster than a Spec miata. I think it needs some aero and fresh rubber. then you have no excuses, and a car that could be in the 1:28-1:29 zone at PIR.

For reference, Spec Miata run 2300 to 2415# at 120-127whp.

All great points, we also need to factor in the condition of the tires that are run, I use exclusively SM takeoffs which are past their prime when I get them. It would nice to do a day on fresh rubber but alas that is not quite yet possible for me.

Another topic to consider is chassis rigidity, Laz has a 235k chassis with a bolt in autopower roll bar and lots of bits cut out vs. rover's full cage. You can have the best suspension in the world bit when the chassis flexes like a limp dong there is only so much even the best dampers can do. A cage is definitely in the future plans for Laz because I want to be able to maximize the ability of the shocks by providing a stiff chassis as a platform.

I imagine Andrew is also a better driver than I am, so of course that needs to be factored in.

Finally,
I didn't start this thread to become a MCS vs XIDA comparison, just showing whats out there and my current (still quite minimal) experience with the MCS. Rover has much more development into him at is point compared to Laz and I'm hoping perhaps with a fresher set of takeoffs I can get the car below 1:30.

Gotta wonder how much the 1:30.4 record car cost. $1000? $1500? Gotta be at least $1500.

this seems like a legit suspension. well at least no one has discovered anything blatantly terrible about it.

so lets not crap up this thread with xida vs xxx. there's plenty of xida threads

Savington in the car is probably worth about a second over the above average club racer in the same car. The Kidd can drive. His dad in the same car same day who is an experienced racer himself was doing 1:32's and that was the first weekend ether of them drove the track.

Add another 190-200 hp a bit of downforce on Xida's and I was running 1:21's while weighing a bit over 2500 lbs.

If you drop the 1 off the front and add two 0 at the end you're probably close. Front running spec pinatas are stupid.

You're saying a front running SM costs 5k to build ???? Shoot time to do SM lol.
Anyways, next time out I'll have my boss take the car out on slightly fresher takeoffs and see what it does. He is a much better driver than I am. I'll post results as they come.

More like 50k.

Nice edit :D

45-55k

^kinda what I figured, his original post said drop the 1 and add a zero. Would you say Rover has more into it than your average SM?

:eek:

I'll take our $2k that's only a half second off. For now anyways.

You can buy a mid pack car for 6-10k though. Cheating is expensive.

yeah, but midpack cars run in the 32-34s at PIR on fresh hoosiers. Even with the MCS the car has maybe 5K into it including the car, parts, and 3 sets of wheels. Granted we have done a lot of things ourselves but still, bang for the buck its hard to beat.

Anyways, back on topic.

"$50k" budget spec miata builds include labor costs from a shop for many things. Comparing that to the $5k in parts and doing all the labor yourself is not apples to apples by a long shot.
Also some of that cost goes into high-end w2w spec safety, which has nothing to do with lap times. Cage, seat, harness, seat mount, fire system, nets... can be $7-8k easy. Not saying every SM has that into it of course, but not all that $50k goes into speed that's for sure

I would guess Rover is not that much higher - it's more about allocating the money to better part choices that SM doesn't allow, not necessarily out-spending the SMs.

-Ryan

No that 40k price difference is all about the cheating. Thats where the motors built to the whistler (and not the rules), the tuned ecu, bent upper control arms and other chassis tweak, etc.

Just to be clear, I think Laz is awesome, don't mean to detract from the impressive lap times in any way.

No worries, just wanted to introduce another option for track oriented motorsport grade suspension for the miata platform.

I fully expect the motion controls to be right in there with the XIDA in terms of performance and a 1:30 at PIR with a low budget ~$1000 car with some good suspension on it is a good time.

Sounds downright fast considering...

A local tuner I know runs them on BMW's and Miata's. He has had nothing but good things to say about em.

They are very popular in the BMW world. Our shop e46 m3 race car has triples on it.

Since the lengths, weight etc is no secret you will get high performing shocks some anyone willing to truly design them and not only adapt something from the shelf.
My single adjustable setup (KH Motorsport using improved TTX parts) works wonders compared to many others but it's now sold for $3+k (sans tax). You gotta pay for someones time.

But which of the well designed offerings is the fastest for you? Get one of each setup and compare yourself.
Even if there were a spec series with open shock/springs you would not be able to judge from the outside since there are too many other variables. The tool holding the wrench plays a bigger role than the wrench itself.

We are installing a set of doubles on John's car today. Testing at Oregon Raceway Park this weekend for his car and mine.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1403890190
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Nice billet coaxial upper mounts. ;)

Next up... Adjustable sways...
Mazda MX5
;)

^yep, mounts are from you Emilio, I must say they are very nice pieces. Here are some more photos of the finished install.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1403919361
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1403919361
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A quick video of me chasing my friend George around Oregon Raceway Park clockwise. He was in his evo IX on Ohlins doubles, Dunlop z2s, bolt ons, and tune, puts down around 330 wheel or so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HpK...ature=youtu.be

I gave your video its first view :party:

Lap times at ORP? I've been there in both directions.

Laz went under 2 minutes with Eddie Nakato driving. IIRC Martin managed a 2 flat towards the end. I had a 2:01.7 mid-day, later I managed a 2:02.1 with my student in the car.

Our cars are pretty evenly matched, it was good times chasing each other. My 600lb penalty compared to Laz hurts :)

I finished the day with a 1:59.8 with me driving. Eddie took the car to a 1:59.2 with me riding passenger. Car has more left in it but my exhaust was leaking more and more as the day progressed and eventually the whole rear of the muffler flew off, car felt super down on power by the end of the day.

I was right around there when we went in 2012 (1:59.x CW). Rover at ~125whp on NT-01s. You were on SM6 takeoffs?

Yeah, I was on SM6 takeoffs, I know for a fact the car has 1-2 seconds in it at least in the current configuration. The big limiting factor at this point is the flacid 235K chassis. I dont have the means to cage the car yet so we are going to do some door bars for it.

As far as the exhaust I think the new packing is working, we just need to actually weld it together instead of using rivets. Car was losing power throughout the day as the exhaust leaked more and more.

Ideally the car will have the VVT motor in before then but I'd like to get it below 1:30 around PIR on the 1.6 before then.

Excuses are like assholes ;)

Not making excuses just pointing out where improvements can be made. Lord knows my driving isn't perfect.

Muffler talk moved to Laz's build thread.

GO MCS!

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1404742892

MCS is on the casting couch?

I'm starting to very seriously consider a set of single adjustable MCS for my NC.

^here is a thread for you then, we just installed a set on a local NC and he is very pleased with them. PM me if you have more questions.
Adrenaline Racing & MCS - MX-5 Miata Forum

^Thanks for the link.

/threadjack