NA / NB engine drop mounts
 

Thought that some of you guys would be happy to know that we're working on engine drop mounts for NA / NB.
Should drop the engine right around 1/2"-9/16" which sets the oil pan right about flush with the bottom of the subframe, we'll have them available in the standard durometers of 70A, 88A and 95A.
PT racers will be happy to know that this is a ZERO points mod :)

Should have pics of the prototype in the next couple of days.

engine drop mounts?? doesnt the oil pan already sit flush or slightly below the crossmember??

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1465423966

Not according to my straight edge.
It sits roughly 1/2" or so above the bottom of the subframe.

the low level of the oil pan was the reason they make spacers to raise it up. broken oil pans on the low cars lends to the pan being low. Do you have stock mounts on yours right now?

I am just confused, not trying to knock what you are doing at all. possibly different on the NB?

Yes.
We used the stock mounts as a base line, then yanked them out and fabricate our own.
Not sure if there's a difference on the NB, but we typically wouldn't advertise fitment of a part before we had a chance to verify it.
I have seen slammed / stanced Miatas breaking oil pans, never seen one that actually broke on track or autox...

well either way, it is great to have guys like you making parts for our cars. keep it up. :likecat:

Blackbird Fabworx NA / NB engine drop mounts
 

First look at our prototype drop mounts -

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1467147904

This is the low mount standard 70A bushing version, actual production version will be slightly changed because we actually found more weight to remove.
The mounts will be powder coated in the same pearl Gunmetal Gray shown in the pic and we're more than likely to stick with the Black bushings (for all versions).

Driver side installed -

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1467147904

Passenger side installed -

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1467147904

We're also working on another version of the mounts which will lower NVH (most common complaint), pics coming soon.
The mounts are going to be available to order within the next 2-3 weeks, final pricing TBA soon.

That's pretty cool. Should also help keep 3rd and 4th in the right place!

I suspect if you have an oil pan that's too low, it's because of worn out OEM engine mounts. I've never pulled a set out of an older car that wasn't collapsed/cracked.

Great idea! I bet you'll be able to feel the 1/2" lower center of gravity. Props Sir, Well done!

I've had my motor lowered for years now. but I just slotted the engine mounts to do it. This is a better solution. I also have the engine moved back now but that requires a lot more modification including shortened drive shaft, PPF, modified hole in the tunnel for the shift turrent, modified center console, and low profile back of head stuff to avoid modifying the firewall.

Yeah, moving the engine back in itself is not that big of a deal, simple repositioning of the mounting bracket flange will easily take care of that part.
It's the _many_ other pieces that have to be customized in order to accommodate the repositioned engine that cause all the headache...

At any rate, this provides the community with an easy bolt in solution that can be installed quickly.

Are you going to make one version for VVT engine with the other mount hole ? Look pretty good, good work guys ! Is the level of the driveshaft still good with those mounts ?

Yep, working on it.
The pinion angle only changes 1/4 of a degree, which for all intents and purposes is nothing.

the pinion angle is set by the PPF these mounts wont change it. you get more change in pinion angle than 1/4 degree by either pushing the tail of the transmission up or letting it sag down as you tighten the PPF bolts.

Well aware of it, I was commenting about the relative change if you kept everything tight as you would do if you were just replacing the motor mounts themselves, a half inch drop nets a quarter degree difference at the pinion.

In reality you are just rotating the whole drive train about the rear diff mounts pinion angles are unchanged.

Indeed, and that's what make the pinion angle change the "important" measurement... seeing that the change is only a quarter of a degree makes the measurement rather unimportant ;)

Interested in 70a

So forgive me if i'm missing the obvious here, but is the only (or main at least) benefit here a lower CG? I've been tracking an S197 mustang for the past few years and just recently swapped to an NB so i'm just reading and learning all i can. Not sure if this is fixing a miata specific issue of some sort i'm not aware of, or if its just better CG. Thanks.

The drop mounts are meant to lower the CoG, but the design offers more than just that.
One of the most common issues you'll run into while driving hard is that the OEM motor mounts (and the replacement "competition" mounts from Mazda) allow the engine to move A LOT.
This in turn causes the engine to torque over so much that when you're trying to shift, the next gear is just not there, causing you to miss the shift you're going for.

By stiffening the mounts you're keeping the motor and trans where they should be, and with the added benefit of lower CoG, it's a win-win situation :)

Ahh, not sure how familiar you are with the MT-82 6 speed in the mustangs, but that's a pain i'm all too familiar with haha. Thanks for the reply.

Not familiar with the Mustang issues, but ghost shifts in tracked Miatas are a very common problem.

Yep. You have to anticipate it. If you do, it's OK. Concentration drops a bit and you either miss the shift, or worse, money shift.

Or, you get motor mounts that prevent the issue and improve CoG while at it :)

So are they available yet?

this

A week ago I said "in 2-3 weeks", this has not changed :)

GB/Pre-order?

Yep, as soon as we have final pricing.

Yup, subbed

I'm sure it will cost less than a money-shift. :)

So what's the difference between these and the supermiata competition motor mounts besides lowering the engine 1/2"? Are they more forgiving in terms of nvh? Would the 70a duro version be good for say my turbo NB daily driver? I have newish Mazda comp mounts in now but I'm tired of missing shifts. Will these cost less than the supermiata mounts? If the 70a is daily drivable I'll order a set asap!

Similar design, and with the same durometer bushings probably the same NVH. That said, he's mentioned a lower NVH version that would be more appropriate for a DD.

In the order you were asking -
* Lowering the engine is not a small difference (!), we also spent some time into reducing the weight of the mount which why they are shaped differently.
* The standard 70A version is going to be similar in terms of NVH, but we're also working on a lower NVH version.
* Depending on your preferences, some people would be A-okay with the additional NVH, some people will complain about anything more than stock... How it works for YOU is an individual thing.
* No, they won't, I expect them to cost a touch more because there's a bit more fabrication involved in the making of our mounts, but only *A TOUCH* more.
* Wait for the low NVH version, it's going to be the missing link between any existing aftermarket mount and the Mazdacomp mounts that are still too soft, we'll have them prototyped within a handful of days, we're only missing one part which should be here shortly.

Are the bushings universal between the setups to swap out should we desire an increase/decrease in stiffness?

No, the low NVH version uses a different bushing altogether.

Finished the second prototype including the low NVH bushings and drove right straight to my powder coaters, should be back soon and then straight off to testing.

I took a quick pic of the bottom of the car before we sent the part out to powder coating to show the way the oil pan lines up with the subframe -

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...5f38ea3174.jpg

Looks awesome! You can throw a set in with my rollbar shipment :)

Your bar is at powder coating and we should have it shipped to you in a few days :)

Really looking forward to the low NVH mount. I will definitely be in for a set. I will be transitioning directly from AWR/Good-Win/Supermiata 70A mounts so will be able to give a back to back subjective comparison. My 70A mounts are great, but the NVH is pretty damn significant. Super excited to get a set, test the low NVH, and see the effect of lowering the engine.

Any info on how the Low NVH one's differ? Is it just a lower durometer bushing? More bushing material?

I see V8Roadsters are doing something similar too: https://www.instagram.com/p/BHiXU_aD...by=v8roadsters (in terms of a lower NVH version of poly mounts, don't think theirs is intended to drop the engine)

The low NVH mounts are using a bigger bushing altogether, more wall thickness in it to absorb energy.
Initially they will be released in 70A bushing durometer and we're working on a lower durometer bushing as well, I'll post some pics later this morning :)

...Aaand here they are -

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...1a85157763.jpg

Compro between standard comp bushing vs. low NVH bushing, there's a significant difference in wall thickness -

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...b9f8845508.jpg

We'll have pricing and start taking orders Monday :party:

Beautiful looking piece. Is the low NVH bushing made of poly still, or is it a rubber bushing? I'm definitely in for one of the low NVH bushings. My body and car is ready to have an unchattering dash.

Thanks!
Left you a poscat because of the Martini Lancias... definitely a good enough reason!

Thanks! I'm a hardcore gruppe B fan if you can't tell. What a time it was.

I actually have a question about lowering the engine. Is this likely to affect clearances on things like turbo downpipes? I actually had to add a garagestar engine shim to raise my engine a bit back when I had a racing beat header. The header would rub the subframe without it.

If the engine is lowered, downpipes may be lowered closer to the subframe, no?

I do think this could be a real issue. I know at least with my setups the down pipe will probably hit.

Yes, this could be an issue with some setups, and for that reason we'll be offering the low NVH mounts in standard mounting height as well.
This should give everyone a solution that will fit their particular part combo.

Was hoping to get final pricing done today as well as start taking orders, but still holding off for pricing from one of the suppliers.
I'll update as soon as I have it done and ready to go :inout:

Any rough estimate as to when the standard (non-drop) low NVH mounts will be ready to ship? Are we talking days, weeks, months? Thanks. I am about to drop an engine in and wondering if I should just wait to drop it in.

I'd estimate it being right around 2-3 weeks from the moment orders are placed until mounts get shipped.

Any updates on the mounts Blackbird?

Drilling a few holes in the bushings will help NVH, understanding you will also reduce strength.

for those who find them intolerable.

Picture a revolver cylinder.

Blackbird Fabworx motor mounts - Now on sale!
 

Yes, I'm definitely overdue on updating you guys about our new mounts :)
I would've loved to have the on the market already and have money coming in, but I don't believe in releasing untested products or ones that I don't feel like we built the very best item we could (given a price target of course)...
These are the reasons that held me back from taking orders over the last couple of weeks, and I've had plenty of guys calling asking about the mounts with their CC handy...

So, I put a couple of extra tweaks in the design and while we're at it finalized our VVT engine mounts as well, so both the 94-00 and 01-05 mounts are going to be available right off the get go :party:
VVT mounts (hardware not shown) -

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f4c9008c60.jpg

But now onto the part that everyone wants to know, testing the low NVH mounts.
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It was a huge success :skid:
We tested the competition mounts and the Low NVH mounts back to back.
To remove any chance of bias or placebo effect on myself I had another driver coming in today to make sure my feelings were confirmed, and the verdict is that the low NVH mounts are doing EXACTLY what I was hoping for them to do.
We started with the standard comp mounts, had our customer (local racer, last year's Roadster cup champ) take his car off to a route that allows testing in all conditions - city driving with stop and go traffic to a local mountain road which gives you a good amount of room to run hard, and return to the shop taking the freeway so he can evaluate cruising.
He came back saying the car shifts like butter and all of the crunchiness he had in his 6 speed is gone, he was very surprised by how well the shifting part worked and said it did not matter how high and hard he ran the car, it shifted perfectly.
He also noted that the car was vibrating and booming quite a bit on city driving and some while cruising on the freeway, noting that low revs decel was particularly harsh (like rolling to a light).

One thing that left him a bit puzzled was that he thought the car turned better, as if the reaction from the steering was quicker... I left out the part that these were the drop mounts we installed on his car, looking to see if he noticed any difference, and he sure did.
So far so good, everything worked exactly as expected.

Off came the competition mounts and on went the low NVH mounts.
We sent him off to tackle the route again to evaluate the differences, as his car leaves I walk back into the office but something like 15-20 I hear the car coming back down the street and got a little nervous that we might have missed tightening some bolt or something..
Nope.
He was so impressed with how HUGE of a difference it had in NVH level that he made a U turn and came right back to tell me how much better this setup is, SUCCESS!
Sent him back out for a test drive and he came back asking if he could keep the set on the car...
So yeah, my one setup that I had of the prototype low NVH mounts is now gone, haha!

I asked him to rate the low NVH mounts based on the Mazdacomp rubber mounts he had on the car before being 0 and the Blackbird Fabworx competition mounts being 10, he rated them at 5-6 for shifting quality and 2 for NVH.
I'm definitely calling this missing accomplished.

And with all that said, we are ready to take orders!

The 94-00 set is selling for $255 plus shipping.
The 01-05 set is selling for $280 plus shipping.
Local pick up is available!

Mounts for 90-93 cars coming soon.

Please shoot me an email to place your order - sales@blackbirdfabworx.com
Thanks!

What are the differences between the 94-00 and vvt designs? I thought all 1.8 brackets where the same. I'm tempted to run the low nvh drop mounts but have no clue if my dog pipe will be resting on the steering shaft. I'll take a gander. Might order these after all.

The VVT engines have an extra bolt at the back.
You can physically run them with the 94-00 mounts, and I expect some will opt to do exactly that for the purpose of weight reduction.
However, since we have them both with or without the extended flange, everyone can run the config they prefer.

If you want to include a set of mounts with your roll bar order, they will ship for free :)

Have these been tested with RB headers in any year of car for clearance?

Yes, I have one on my own car (99).
No interference of any kind and the rear flange is sitting flush with the frame rails -
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4bfe4832fb.jpg

Can you comment on the fitment of a flyin' miata downpipe? Is this going to drop the exhaust itself lower? I'll be in for a set immediately if it doesn't cause issues with my downpipe.