NASA Texas Time Trials Season Results
 

Dude! I was checking out the results from TWS this last weekend and saw this. From the NASA Forum...

Season Champions were also decided, here are the top 3 per class

TTS - 16 total
1st - Mitch Kramer (674 points)
2nd - John Roberts (515 points) ZX-Tex
3rd - Lajos Minik (470 points)

TTB - 18 total
1st - Ken Orgeron (600 points)
2nd - Trey Rozelle (472 points) Hustler
3rd - Rich Soule (335 points)

TTC - 5 total
1st - Norman Wilhelm (700 points)
2nd - Eric Foss (200 points)
2nd - Jake Groves (200 points) Jacob300ZX


see http://nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=50974

Also worth mentioning is that the SM leaders in Sunday's afternoon race were running in the 2:01 range with the fastest being a 2:01.3 set by Trevor McCallion. Those who set times considerably faster than this, you know who you are. For example, Spoolin's top time was almost 7 seconds under the top Spec Miata times, and mine at about 5 seconds under.

Cool. Hopefully that cheating son of a bitch KenO get's put in TTA.

lol, I forgot I even ran TTC

What kind of car and how's he cheating?

E36 M3?

How far off this guy are you?

TTB E46 M3 which weighs <3100lb and makes 330whp, 285 Hoosier R6, and not 4 second faster driver than me at Hallett, 8 seconds faster at MSR-C, nor is he a 5 second faster driver at ECR. He typically turns a time in TTB that wins TTA. Its a little strange because at 245whp, he put bus-lengths on me at TWS and TTB has a 10hp/1lb limit for a reason. I'm competitive and faster than the E92 M3s, C5Zs, most S197s, and the Evos in TTB (according to the standings), but he's crushing the field by 10-seconds. TTB was a lot of fun this year because I was in a pack of E92s and it was a hard fought 2nd place most weekends.

A friend of mine has an E46 328IS and it is fucking fast on the track. Those era BMW's are quick cars. I can see your frustration....

Trey is so slow.


I hope you all are rocking mt.net decals. If not, you should. We'll even do large and/or one offs for you guys.

Only on my helmet. I just remembered that Rick was going to make some for me earlier this year and I totally forgot about it. I need to get a few. MT.net should wrap the van that I hope to buy in the near future.

We are pretty much out of all the decals. Rick wants me to make something new for 2012.

But I want our racers to have baller shit and represent.

The racers should have separate stickers

yeah, that's what i was thinking. i want them to represent for reals. -- we can go pretty extreme of tame, custom, one off, huge small, homo, kitty, etc.

This does not sound like a B car to me...

So E46 M3 is PTC** @ 3415lbs.

If what you say is correct then:

** = 14
R6 = 10
+30mm tire = 7 (TTC base tire size is 255)
-290 lbs = 20

So that's 51 points right there, already an 12 points into an A car and that's with a completely stock suspension, intake, exhaust, etc.

Max RWHP if he's running at 3125lbs is 304. Has he ever been dyno'd?

Does anyone in Texas care about enforcing the rules in TT? Have you ever seen/asked for his classification sheet?

I finished third in PTB at the Nasa Nationals and I can tell you the tech inspection was very lax...and that was for a podium finish at the championship race.

Our PTB/TTB car dyno'd at 265whp and we run at ~3175lbs. I wish we could get another 40whp but we're already at the limit of the points. Eitherway our TTB/PTB car is properly quick (won PTB last year, third this year but I was fastest in the dry) for being a fail wheel drive luxury boat.

I've been to the dyno with him and I know he's not in a dyno reclass, I'd love for him to roll onto the dyno at the track some time. He may be 3300 with driver. Here are the mods I know he runs:
Cobb tuned on 93 octane
pulleys
carbon intake thing
light exhaust
275 Hoosier R6
AST 5100
camber plates
sway bars
the biggest Stoptech's you've seen in your life

I heard he had a really tough time in tech over engine mods and tire size at nationals.

i didn't care about TT this year, just wanted to do my best in TxMC. But yes, a couple of us added up his points and he should be over. i think he runs 265 hoosiers in ttb though. we also found his posts on bimmer forums where he talks about the power he made with a reflash and all the bolts-on (he has the entire turner or bimmer world bolt-on catalog thrown on his car) and posts dyno sheets, but never talks about actual peak numbers. only what he made over last tune or stock. someone even asked about that and he alluded to keeping it secret due to classing. i think his official dyno sheet was 301whp. i overheard him mention to someone halfway thru the year that his epic tune made 27whp more than previous. I've been running TTA this year because i think i may be under weight by about 10lbs. if i run less than half a tank of gas. i should be in ttb. i think the issue is we have to be on hoosiers. In april ken ran 1:56.3 which i think is ttb lap record while i was again stuck on 2:00.0 again on 1yr old nt-01's. Last weekend on ttb boost/power i ran a 1:55.6 on 2 new R6's and 2 with 2 heat cycles so i think we could be compeitive but didn't have the right tires or pushing hard enough.

brain, i will rock the decals if i can get some. i'll even sign up as a supporter. if you can print some small ones i can give them out to all TxMC competitors at the events. Actually, i'll pm you soon, i've got some other ideas to bounce off you as well.

I run the e46 M3 in TX NASA TT.

NASA TX does care about the rules.

My car is TTB legal with 39 points my sheet is on file if you would like to see it just ask. Mod points are, ** +14, 275mm R6 +14, intake +1, pulleys +1, exhaust +2, AST 4200 +3, springs +2, brakes +2, total 39 points. Plus the free mods, camber plates, bushings, etc. The car is built to the top of the class.

Power to weight is legal. I am happy to dyno my car at any event/track.

I never had any issues at TT Nationals with tires or engine mods.

I usually run on new or fairly new 275mm Hoosiers R6. Fresh tires make a difference as mentioned in this thread by spoolin2bars.

I am at a track or autocross event almost every weekend, practice, practice, practice. My M3 has had 48K miles on it in 3 years and I don't daily drive it.

Disregard.

ban hammer

I rescind my accusation. I meant no disrespect to Ken, I was really frustrated and said things I should not have. I am tired of getting constantly curb-stomped and crying like a ------ about it.

You have to admit that that your 10.8hp/lb ratio to my 11.6hp/lb ratio, the NT-01 that are 50mm skinnier, and general gayness means there is no way in hell I will ever be competitive in that class. I basically there to help other people win tires. I believe you're a better drive, but I don't believe you're a 4-second better driver than me at Hallett, there is just no way. The same is true with the other tracks aside from TWS.

I agree that your car is under classed. I think if you tried fresh tires it might help.

Last time we ran Houston early on Saturday we were together out of Diamond's Edge and you put-a bus-length on me when we got to sweeper. I was so pissed.
I have a set, but at 260whp and new NT-01's the best I've run at Hallett is not a 24. If I could get 1-point back somewhere I could run front and rear aero, that might put me closer to you...I think a wing and splitter would change the game on my car but my only option is to put a 5-speed back in it.

Right now I'm trying ------- surgery instead so who knows when I'll drive again, if ever. I kind-of over it these days and not exactly in a hurry to track the car again.

Can you run R6s?

Wait wha?

I have 13 points in TTB. The splitter is +3 and the wing is +4, I need to find a point somewhere. I can run an R6, but I don't exactly have $1200 to blow on tires every 3 track days...I track a Miata for a reason. Well, more than one reason, lol. An R6 is not going to give me much time over the NT-01 though.

lol @ NASA classing:
TTC Eric Foss Mazdaspeed 3 01:57.351 Nov-11

Have you considered used R6's? Give John Berget a call (http://www.jbracingtires.net/). He sells half worn tires for about $50 a piece. They aren't as fast as new R6's, but they may be faster than NT-01's... and they are definitely cheap.

You gotta remember Eric Foss is a pro driver. That car is mostly stock on take-offs. Stock motor, downpipe mod worth 20-30 hp or so, stock brake calipers and rotors... Most of that awesomeness is due to the equipment between the seat and the wheel (driver).

It was great watching him at TWS last November in the rain. He was stomping everyone on the track in that car, and I mean everyone, at least everyone in the TT sessions.

949 will tell you they are not as fast an an NT-01, and I believe him.

So it's making ~300whp/350wtq?

Here is his mod-list:
Mods are SURE intake, SURE Flow M3, SURE RMM, Carbotech pads, DBA Rotors, Cobb AP @ 16.5psi and BFG R1's 225/45r17.

Meh, I'm tired of living through this ---- again and I've had a lot more fun since I stopped tracking this car. I'm going back to not driving the turbo car and wishing I had a Mustang.

There is no way the NT01 is faster than the R6.

Going fast isn't cheap I've found...but grip is the #1 thing to have.

Trey have you tried Hankooks? The Z214 DOT tire I mean :) I may buy a set of those in a 225/45-15 C51 at some point...

From my experience, BFG R1 are quick on heavy cars (not available in 275 tho). Just like R6 (275) they take 2-3 laps to reach their optimal temperature. A6 (275) are quicker to reach their temp and they don't overheat (5-7) laps. At least on my 200HP/2300lbs (consistent 140-150F).

Will collect data on used A6 vs new R6 (both 275) on the next Time Attack in June.

Important distinction, a pro driver with a boatload of time behind the wheel of a MS3 for a pro team (Freedom).

I watched Mike Skeen do other-worldly ---- behind the wheel of a ZR-1 last weekend. If you were ever looking for an ego deflation, (and this works especially well if you have data), put a pro behind the wheel of your car.

I thought about it during the NT-01 shortage. Now we have the Toyo slick, the Maxxis R-comp, and the Federal R-comps coming out soon so those will hopefully be a more grippy option that does not cost $1000 per set.

He's referring to used r6 vs new nt01... I think used a6 would be the best bang for your buck as long as you don't overheat them

Lol @ old thread, but theres no way nt-01's are as fast as a6/r6. Once the hoosiers fall off sure, but not new. Plus you have multiple wheels. You run nt-01s to practice on then put the hoho's on for a few laps on the last session or 2. And stop being a -----. You've gotten faster which is the point. Who cares if you can't win your class. You don't have fun out there? I missed msr-c this year and by month 3 I was having serious withdrawals. I was a ticking time bomb, sorry to anyone I offended or assaulted last month! Lol

Sometimes I feel like I'm dying to go to the track, other times like right now I just want to make #2 without pain. Do you think those 1-year old Contis in my garage are still any good?

Don't EVER complain about costs vs. winning. Gotta pay to play, or in this case to win. Surprised you would go there, considering how you put your turbo/motor together.

That being said, it is also a reason I didn't bother finishing my TTD car.

I only have to build an engine once, I'd have to spend $1200 on tires every-other weekend. Considering the point system, I should be able to get there with points in other places.

Be glad your in an area with NASA... around here SCCA is the only game in town, which means I'm in SSM for TT's; an essentially open class. Its a god damn arms race. I'm classed with GT3-RS's, ZR-1's, Vipers, practically anything with two seats and doors is fair game. The only reason I win is due to lack of serious competition, lol.

For sure. Mine felt great at TWS. Ask zxtex about them. Mine are that old.

My point is that winning requires spending money. Any front-running car is most likely doing so on new or very fresh tires, good ($$$) brake pads, good power ($$$) and spend a lot of time ($$$) on track/test days getting the car setup right. If you're constrained by a budget, no big deal (I am a low-budget master myself), but don't expect to win the season championship in a competitive class.

Also note that the point system gives you the freedom to do whatever the ---- you want, not necessarily the freedom to have whatever the ---- you want be a WINNING setup. The point system may very well work out to allow winning, but your particular choice of point spending isn't the right combination.

Maybe I'll put those on and try to run HHR, if my turbo ever shows up.

I'm aware. There are a few cars in my class running NT-01 who are competitive...and they are all S2ks with aero. Again, I can afford the cost of aero or a diff one time, I can't really swing $1200 on tires every-other weekend. I really, really wish I could put a Giken, splitter, and wing on this car.

Why do you keep saying 1200 every other weekend? I already explained how you do it for 1200 a season. Drive to, from, and practice on nittos, bolt on hoho's for last 2 sessions per event. By the last event if you run 5, you'll have 10 or less sessions on them. Still in good shape at that point, sell'em, buy a new set for the next season using some cash from old set. Your still not gonna beat ken, but you'll be that much closer. Even if you bought the wing, splitter, and giken, you won't be any faster than if you just bought the tires, which would be way cheaper. Plus, your forgetting about the most important thing of all. Seat time. Not being a dick but your driving is holding you back. None of us here are where we should be, or want to be, but I'd almost put money that if you had the giken, splitter, wing, and hoho's, you'd still would have a hard time beating me, let alone ken-o. Stop trying to throw money at your car to go faster and get seat time. Maybe go in on a coach for an open track day or something. Besides driving, sometimes they can help with setup also. You probably have seconds in your car as is. I know I would love to get some high level instruction, maybe get saini to drive my car and give me some feedback. Lol

Yeah, I know. I have a lot to learn on TWS, MSR-H, and MSR-C 3.1. I'm proud of my times at Hallett, ECR, and HHR.

Thanks for posting here, I'm sure you have better things to do...

So your running @ 3400lbs? Jeez, I thought our PTB/TTB car was heavy...

Is the car caged?

TT weight for the car is 3415. I can get close to that but don't want to risk a DQ by going under. No cage. Trying to decide what to do next. I want a W2W car. Thinking Spec Miata. The M3 is fun but the real killer in TTB is a C5 vette.

So I can run 175whp in TTC, 210whp in TTB, or 211-279whp in TTS in my 2430lb car. Of course, these are Dynojet numbers too. I guess this is the nice way of NASA telling me to buy a Mustang, BMW, or Corvette.

Is this right? This means 949's orange car would be in TTA considering lb/hp.

CMC. One day I will be there too.

In TTB why can't you run 237whp for a 10.25? Or using the Adjusted HP, on 225mm tires you could run 246whp. Does the reclass toss all that out?

^ Pretty much - the reclass is a joke, GG gives you your new base class with max whp, but then you have to take mod points from there. At 236rwhp, GG reclassed me in TTB**; with aero, LSD, suspension, and tires - I was at the very top of TTA - right with the vettes.

TTS/R/U is pretty much a straight hp:wt ratio, but you still take points for some things, like tires

Because Greg Greenbaum says 210whp is my limit and that he will not base-class a Miata in TTA. By doing this he's basically giving me an option of TTB or TTS. When I starting getting ready for TTB I would have been able to run a lot more power with the same point list and stay in B.

TT will seem like a silly waste of time and money once you start W2W, it's a slipperly slope...

At least that was my experience.

I don't know which classes have good numbers in NASA Texas but I would run whatever class has the best numbers/participation not counting Spec Miata. I think the idea of Spec Miata is awesome, but the reliality of the class and racing in the class in the here and now is not super appealing to me. Here in the Great Lakes region PTE seems to have pretty good participation regularly, I think that is the class I would run if I were building a car. PTE is also popular in the Mid Atlantic region, and Summit Point and VIR aren't too far of a drive.

At 3400 lbs your car must be pretty hard on tires and brakes. What size are your stoptechs?

Gigantic and erotic.

CMC/AI is the king here. Trash with a car in the trailer, instead of furniture.

I'm wondering what size I need for my 3200lb TT car.

Like is 328mm X 28mm big enough for a 3200lb car.

Or should I go with the 332mm x 32mm?

Or buy 18" wheels and go with the 355mm x 32mm...?

Price difference between 328 and 332 is small, and both will fit under my current wheels. 355mm kit isn't that much more expensive but new 18" wheels are...

I'm guessing he has at least 355mm ones on a 3400lb car with that much power and rubber...

I don't know any of that stuff.

Lol, probably questions better posed to the Stoptech guys...