NB vs NC - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Race Prep Miata race-only chat.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-11-2014, 09:35 AM   #21
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 162
Total Cats: 11
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Another thing to consider. Should the worst happen and you ball up the car. the NB can be stretched, pulled, and massaged back into shape even if its REALLY bad. The NC, gets "lightly" tapped and you need a new tub. According to a local shop that rents both out for for road racing (and s2ks and RX7s).
Interesting, I wonder what the differences are that make one so repairable and the other not?

robert
robertcope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 09:37 AM   #22
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertcope View Post
Interesting, I wonder what the differences are that make one so repairable and the other not?

robert
If I had to take an educated guess, the steel alloy, thickness, and geometry. They said the NC tub just tears if you try to pull it out.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 09:58 AM   #23
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Anderson, SC
Posts: 149
Total Cats: 6
Default

Admittedly, I don't have a ton of experiences, but we have 2 customers who use their NC's for DD purposes, auto-x, and track day events. One also does hill climbs.

One gentleman has an '06. He had Ohlins installed here, corner weighted, a little axle back just for some noise (Racing Beat, I think), and swaps out pads and rotors between track duty and street use (He uses Hawks on track). We also set-up a Kirky bucket to swap in and out with his stock seat, so he can have a 6-point harness during track events.

The other gentleman also has an '06. He came here for Progress springs installed over what were the stock Bilsteins (If I recall correctly), along with Racing Beat sway bars. He also swaps pads and rotors back and forth. He runs a harness of some kind around his stock seat, but we didn't install that.

Driving both, the suspension help, with a good alignment, really woke both cars up. They feel great, even with just the little bit they have done to them performance wise. Obviously the Ohlins are fantastic, but I was pleased with the results the other car saw with it's additions. Both owners come in for general maintenance, inspections, fluid changes and have been tracking the cars for at least two-three years now with no reliability issues. Maybe they're the exception, and not the rule, but their 2006's have served them well, and are really enjoyable even if they aren't modified to the teeth.
sharkythesharkdogg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 10:31 AM   #24
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: OKC, OK
Posts: 2,644
Total Cats: 76
Default

That's interesting about the NC.

Just have to see what prices look like come November/December. At least it looks like I'll be able to rent some time in my buddies STL build later in the year so I won't completely miss out on driving this year.
z31maniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 10:44 AM   #25
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Taos, New mexico
Posts: 5,702
Total Cats: 237
Default

I agree about the NC, super nice car and I'd love one. I would keep mine N/A for a long time too with basic bolt ons, even as a street car.

However, you cant discount the cost of a replacement NB shell if you put it into the wall, performance parts, replacement OEM parts, etc. A wise man once told me to never track a car that you are not prepared to write off entirely.
Fireindc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 10:58 AM   #26
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: OKC, OK
Posts: 2,644
Total Cats: 76
Default

^I'm well aware of that last bit. That's why I have an NA now.

It's also why I decided against taking the '13 Mustang GT Track Pack car to the track before I got rid of it. Even though I would have put insurance on it (Lockton Affinity offers HPDE insurance), it wasn't something I wanted to deal with.
z31maniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 11:16 AM   #27
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 6,009
Total Cats: 583
Default

Cheap car . . . go fast . . . have fun . . .
hornetball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 11:24 AM   #28
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: OKC, OK
Posts: 2,644
Total Cats: 76
Default

Realistically I'll end up with an NB, just thought I ask about it now in case I run across a smoking deal.
z31maniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 02:17 PM   #29
Newb
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 44
Total Cats: -1
Default

Are the NC running costs really that far from an S2k, why not consider that.
To me the whole point to running a Miata is go fast(ish) for cheap.
Redlined600 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 02:58 PM   #30
Elite Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,049
Total Cats: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by z31maniac View Post
I'll be able to rent some time in my buddies STL build later in the year.
Buddy's STL Build?

Miata?

1.6 or 1.8?
Efini~FC3S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-11-2014, 03:06 PM   #31
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: OKC, OK
Posts: 2,644
Total Cats: 76
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
Buddy's STL Build?

Miata?

1.6 or 1.8?
2001 Miata

I don't think it will be getting close to fully prepped until next year, but it will at least be a caged Miata with a decent setup, so I won't be completely without track time this year.
z31maniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2014, 01:22 AM   #32
Newb
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 5
Total Cats: 4
Default

HEY that's my NC build! I work for a Grand-Am team and we race NC's. I can tell you that they can take more than a hit and still be saved..... This car is getting saved even.
The NC is quite a leap to a better car from the NB. Bigger wheel bearings, better susp, and the trans/diff are much stronger. The 6 speed is MUCH stronger than 5speed. If you're going to track it get a 6speed car! With a few bolt ons you can have a porsche,bmw eater.
eflove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2014, 04:40 AM   #33
Newb
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 15
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by z31maniac View Post
IIRC stock they tend to put down around 140whp, and the aforementioned mods tend add 25-30whp.
Negative unfortunately.
I haven't seen anything showing above 155ish whp. That seems to be a consistent max from the popular tune providers using Goodwin hardware.

But someone did get their IHE tuned NC to quarter [email protected]
Mattesa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2014, 04:34 PM   #34
Newb
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Santa Barbara
Posts: 23
Total Cats: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattesa View Post
Negative unfortunately.
I haven't seen anything showing above 155ish whp. That seems to be a consistent max from the popular tune providers using Goodwin hardware.
I thought TDR had an NC get 163whp on Dynojet running a Goodwin racing header and exhaust with a TDR tune of the stock ECU. They were shooting for an estimated 200bhp. Using a catted mid pipe dropped it down to 160whp.

I have my 99 PT/SPM race car for sale. When it sells, I plan to buy an NC and make it into a fun street / track day car.
Red_5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2014, 06:17 PM   #35
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 491
Total Cats: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
I thought TDR had an NC get 163whp on Dynojet running a Goodwin racing header and exhaust with a TDR tune of the stock ECU. They were shooting for an estimated 200bhp. Using a catted mid pipe dropped it down to 160whp.

I have my 99 PT/SPM race car for sale. When it sells, I plan to buy an NC and make it into a fun street / track day car.
I wouldn't trust anything TDR tunes, 11:1 AFR at WOT brah.
Lincoln Logs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2014, 08:20 PM   #36
Elite Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,970
Total Cats: 49
Default

he is probably referring to track dog racing, not "tuning done right".
Seefo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2014, 08:42 PM   #37
Newb
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Santa Barbara
Posts: 23
Total Cats: 4
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Track View Post
he is probably referring to track dog racing, not "tuning done right".
I was talking about Tuning Done Right. I was merely pointing out that it can and has been done. I imagine if they can do it, others can too. I sure seems like the NC is lacking in development at least those willing to share their info.
Red_5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2014, 08:19 AM   #38
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 168
Total Cats: 10
Default

The big benefits of running an NC are the suspension geometry, tub stiffness, and the tyre choices. Apart from that, they are heavier and the MRZ has shown fragility at high levels of tune (though these issues have mostly been solved by the Playboy teams and later model engines), and the gearboxes (esp. pre 09 models) had some issues too (shift forks IIRC). When they're sorted though, they're damn quick.

I still think the earlier cars can be developed to compensate for their shortcomings. Custom control arms, drop spindles, etc can all be had now off the shelf to improve the geometry on NA/NB cars, and the bolt on options and weight reduction potential of the earlier cars mean they will always have the weight advantage over the NCs. The engines are cheaper and easier to tune, and sure is nice being able to pick an ECU off the shelf, plug it in, tune and go. Try that with an NC.

So yeah, NCs are quicker... But not by much, and bang for buck is still firmly with the NA/NB cars.
zossy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2014, 08:23 AM   #39
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

The NCs kind of have the tuning even easier than plug and play standalones, order a cable, plug the cable into your obdii port, use tablet to tune stock ecu. And then if you need something more serious than a flash tuned factory ecu you can turn off all the codes in the stock ecu an just leave it hooked up to the obdii port to pass emissions.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2014, 08:29 AM   #40
Junior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 168
Total Cats: 10
Default

Maybe for a basic flash tune - but serious tuning seems to be a bit tricky from what I've observed. I watched one of my mates struggle all weekend a few weeks ago with his race-tuned NC while his ECU continually reset itself into "limp home mode" on track, and did other choice things like reset and disable his ABS in the middle of a hard braking zone.

I'm sure these things aren't all that common but I am thankful for how simple my car is!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
The NCs kind of have the tuning even easier than plug and play standalones, order a cable, plug the cable into your obdii port, use tablet to tune stock ecu. And then if you need something more serious than a flash tuned factory ecu you can turn off all the codes in the stock ecu an just leave it hooked up to the obdii port to pass emissions.
zossy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:51 PM.