Savington

iTrader: (31)

What an atrocious rule. I get the intent, but it turns RM2 into a motor-swapping contest. Whoever can make 300whp for the longest on a stock motor wins, or whoever brings the most spare motors wins.

RMU is beyond the scope of Rover's build, RM2 would have been perfect if not for that. Alas.

Roda

Yeah, that's why I was looking for clarification... usually "stock block" doesn't mean "stock internals", like Emilio said, but apparently in this case it does.

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

Yep I am a bit annoyed by the rules. I have been building my car to be about the limit of the street classes for Grid Life and GTA. Unfortunately the rules for street class throw me into RMU. The rules for RM2 throw me into Limited or Unlimited in other time attack events. I think it is a bit stupid and a bit short sighted on the rules. Also 3 way adjustable shocks in RM2 boggles my mind. That seems like over kill and if you build the RM2 to the limit, you will definitely be well out classed in any other TA event.

I was hoping with the joining forces of all the different events that some unity would come. Right now it just seems like giant clusterfuck of random madness.

I think a 250whp average for RM2 would be a good limit, stock or built motor. I don't know the best way to actually test and enforce that.

icantlearn

This sums up by frustration to the point. I just don't get it.

Accuracy level 1000

Midtenn

iTrader: (15)

I also don't understand the "just for fun" mindset behind the rules either. If there is ANYTHING to be won, people are going to take it seriously and look for every competitive edge.

KMiata

I totally agree, I'd like BPs to be able to have forged internals for reliability. Same with a BMW trans swap. The fewer failures the better.

Edit: let's also remember this is a brand new series, and I'm confident rules will be modified after 2019. As competitors push the limits of of the classes I'm sure rules will get more specific and hopefully more fair for everyone.

flier129

iTrader: (7)

I believe the "OEM block only" rule will be removed after the first season..... otherwise two things will probably happen.
1. Majority of entries will be "cheating"
2. The class will die.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

I think the folks at Gridlife, or at least the fb group moderator, underestimate how much effort competitors will put into this competition. Before I personally lift a finger to prep a car for any competition anywhere, I want to have a clear understanding of the rules and no ambiguities.
I'd rather get an up front clarification on some clever interpretation and have it pre-banned than showing up with crossed fingers with a mod that's in the gray area. I always assume we will be in contention for the class win and will be scrutinized by tech accordingly.

Goingnowherefast

iTrader: (1)

Maybe, but I think the intent is clear to keep the series as grassroots as possible. So far, all the allowed mods in RM2 can be completed by an amateur DIY'er in their own garage. Throw engine building into a mix and you basically need to go to a machine shop at the least. I just don't think it fits with the intent of the class imo. There's a big price delta between a junkyard 1.8L and a $5,000 TSE short block (of which I would love). Hell I purchased the car, Xidas, and a 1.8L VVT for less than 5K.

Here's a list of cars that will make 200 HP and not die yet will fit into the class:

1. ND1 Miata with tune and bolt ons
2. ND2 Miata with tune and bolt ons
3. ND1/2 Miata with any FI
4. NC Miata w/ 2.5L Swap tune and bolt ons
5. Rotrex NA/NB Miata's
6. NC Miata with any form of FI
7. NC Miata with tune, bolt ons and E85

All those examples make above 200 bhp and don't explode w/ stock block. It could be a possibility that they aren't designing the class specifically for a hardcore few at MT.net.

Regardless, it's great to finally get a Miata specific class. Like mentioned, putting Miata's up against C7's, M3's, S2K's, C6z06's doesn't make much sense.

KevinK121

Yeah, that ^

If its for fun, its for fun. If going all out on your build and traveling all across the country for a couple pieces of carved wood trophies is what you're after... more power to ya, but you're ruining it with all the pedantic over analysis. The rules for gridlife have always been loose and there's always been plenty of people still signing up and having fun.

I'm just glad I can go run track events with my friends who drive the big-boy stuff. With some semblance of a chance at being competitive, that is.

flier129

iTrader: (7)

At any given track day, do you see more of those 7 listed or turbo NA/NBs? Also, I disagree with rotrex'd na/nb, rods are still guna bend at 250+ despite the component pushing the air.

This isn't to tend for the hardcore few at MT.net, this is for the people who have made some reliability mods to their track NA/NB. I believe the reasoning behind this is flawed as well..."someone with a built BP can change their tune and run 300+ to cheat" . If someone really wanted to crank their tune on their OEM block to ~300 to cheat in the class they can.

I think the first year will be great and everyone will have a good time. If the series wants growth than some checks and balances will have to be put in place along with a more detailed rule-set. Have a built engine in RM1 or RM2? You'll need to provide a dyno-sheet before the event and datalogs if your times are questioned.

Padlock

Wont take much to be able to bump draft me as I'll have #alltheaerodrag

Goingnowherefast

iTrader: (1)

Honestly I'm not sure if that's sarcasm. In my region, there's definitely more bolt on NC, ND, and supercharged cars than NA/NB turbo miata's specifically. Uh, again I disagree. Low end torque is generally what bends rods. The prime characteristic of a Rotrex car is that they make no torque. Makes the car suck for street fun (compared to turbo) but it's super easy to keep alive. As reference I make 250 whp and 210 wtq.

Again, I just think there's a disconnect about what people think the Gridlife series is. If you've ever been to one, you'll know they honestly don't give a **** about most mods, they just check the tires for size and compound. That's kind of the whole point, it's meant to be as laid back and grassroots as possible. I think people are coming from a NASA/SCCA/GTA state of mind, and that just doesn't fit here. Frankly I want a more casual series to compete in. Both can exist.

Exactly.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

Showing up with a poorly prepared car and being OK with being smoked is fine, if you just want to participate. But it's really naive to think that everyone else feels the same way.

Goingnowherefast

iTrader: (1)

And I'm not saying that's wrong, I'm just saying that in general Gridlife has always been a more relaxed racing series compared to the west side's stuff. There's no real prizes, no contingency etc., everyone's kind of just there for fun.

The fact is simply not everyone has the amount of resources you, Andrew or a lot of other guys here have. I think a stock motor, low boost class makes sense.

doward

I found the problem.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

Not arguing the actual make up of the class, what's legal and what isn't. We are discussing the difficulty in knowing what car to bring give the ambiguities in the current rule set.

As it stands, for example. No one here knows for sure what Gridlife means by "stock block". Everyone has an opinion but no one knows 100% for certain.

We have reached out to the guys at Gridife and offered to help clear up some of the potential loop holes. They accepted our consultation.
The outline of the rule set and intention are good. Just need to make some clarifications is all. We don't really care what mod is or isn't legal in a given class.

We'll have many folks calling us asking us for advice and parts for RM. Right now we are in the dark, as are you. Hopefully that will change.

Goingnowherefast

iTrader: (1)

I truly believe a space can exist between HPDE's and full W2W/TT racing. That's where Gridlife targeted.

x2

flier129

iTrader: (7)

Your area has more money than my area apparently :P.

So the longevity of a 275hp BP won't change if it's oem vs aftermarket components? I'll answer that for you... No, oem won't last as long as properly built engine. Also 200hp=/=275hp, stop comparing 200hp engines for a 275hp class, that's naive even for GL.

If one just wants to have fun, why even compete at all? Just go out in HPDE with your buddies and have fun.

doward

MiataChallenge and the plethora of singlemake series that followed have been wildly successful on the west coast doing exactly that, but I think they're all firmly in "TT Racing" territory, whatever that means. They pay $20 extra for lap timing, and there are results, and often trophies.
86Cup has a midwest and norcal variant, ran inside Gridlife at a couple events in the Midwest. The key is, those series all have rules that much more thoroughly assess the specific platform, many with a spec tire or gentleman's tire, more than 3 classing levels, etc.

The current RM rules have gaps in the power levels, a Stock Engine rule in a class that allows swaps, etc...
"Two aero elements in the front" PLUS canards. So, three aero elements in the front. not 2?
"Suspension is limited to two/three adjustments" Well, Camber, Caster and Toe are adjustable from the factory. Ride height would be a 4th adjustment. Rebound damping 5th, compression damping 6th.

Either way, I love entry level competition formats as much as the next guy. I am in the business of selling parts to help people go win entry level competition formats. I just wish these rules made more sense, but i'm probably arguing semantics in a "just for fun" safe space class created so the Miatas wouldn't get beat so badly in the "real" gridlife classes.