Offset bushing and wheel fitment discussions - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Race Prep Miata race-only chat.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-26-2015, 02:57 PM   #41
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 6,008
Total Cats: 583
Default

Yeah, that was a pretty bad threadjack, but the subject was worthy. Well done Curly!
hornetball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 03:08 PM   #42
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,475
Total Cats: 114
Default

I made sleeves for urethane bushings that actually pivot. I replaced all the 7/8” OD sleeves with 4340 ĺ” OD Sleeves surrounded by ĺ” ID 7/8” OD SAE oil/Teflon impregnated bronze bushings. Rear upper is a spherical.

Don’t have any time on them yet but they feel great I think they will work well. Now requires very little force to move the suspension up and down now. Removed like 40 lbs of static friction in the rear. Performs very close to an all Spherical setup and probably less likely to develop slop as the surface area transfering load of the bushings is much greater than that for a sperical.

Attached Thumbnails
Offset bushing and wheel fitment discussions-131509d1421775915-rear-knuckle-upper-spherical-discussion-131507d1421775753-rear-knuckle-upper-s.jpg  
bbundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 03:09 PM   #43
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,990
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

Where do I place my order....
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 03:13 PM   #44
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,475
Total Cats: 114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NiklasFalk View Post
I've been shot down before for suggesting bronze bushing sleeves between the Poly/delrin and the center sleeve. But it would remove the binding issue and reduce the wear of the bushing material.
I did it it works wonderfully well!!
bbundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 03:17 PM   #45
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Granbury, TX
Posts: 6,008
Total Cats: 583
Default

Dang, Bob, that's awesome. Were they OTS parts from an industrial supply house or did you have to machine yourself?
hornetball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 03:36 PM   #46
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,475
Total Cats: 114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Dang, Bob, that's awesome. Were they OTS parts from an industrial supply house or did you have to machine yourself?
Had the sleeves machined from cold finished bar stock that is typically used for hydraulic rams so surface finish looks smooth and polished like a shock shaft material. Bushings are from McMaster but the local hardware store has them as well. Material cost isnít terrible it is a lot of machine time however. A little bit over 3 feet of bar stock to bore out and part off in some pretty tough material.

For the cam bolt locations I have 4mm thick 7/8" OD washers made so as to better handle high clamp loads without squishing the subframe which was a conscern.
bbundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 03:39 PM   #47
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,990
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

Would you be willing to share dimensions, I may take this on as my next lathe project.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 03:48 PM   #48
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Mobius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,176
Total Cats: 261
Default

That's awesome Bob. Aidan I will donate fundage to the effort, I want a set.
Mobius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 03:52 PM   #49
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,990
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

Also just to make sure I understood it right, the sleeves have uerethane bushing inside them, which stop the binding issues, but create friction issues. By putting the sleeves inside brass bushings you are left with a bushing that doesn't bind laterally yet still can rotate freely?
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 04:04 PM   #50
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 328
Total Cats: 40
Default

I have wanted these for as long as I saw them in Sean's rear knuckle sperical bearing thread.

Just keep in mind, I believe Bundy made this to work with his V8R control arms. You would have to make custom urethane bushings that are 7/8" ID and standard miata OD for these to work.

Is this correct Bundy?
Dustin1824 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 04:15 PM   #51
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,475
Total Cats: 114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Also just to make sure I understood it right, the sleeves have uerethane bushing inside them, which stop the binding issues, but create friction issues. By putting the sleeves inside brass bushings you are left with a bushing that doesn't bind laterally yet still can rotate freely?
These replace the metal inner sleeves that come with energy suspension urethane bushings or the version found in V8R arms. You still use the urethane parts. Urethane sliding on steel absolutely sucks for low friction properties and is hugely inconsistent and wonít stay lubed for really any use at all I donít care what scheme you use. I would argue bonded rubber like OEM is a better solution to urethane because it has no sliding friction.

The bronze bushed inner sleeves in the urethane seems to cure the friction problem while retaining the advantages Urethane has over both bonded rubber and delrin solutions.
bbundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 04:19 PM   #52
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,990
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

Ok that makes sense. For some reason I thought the sleeves you made went around the urethane bushings. So these go inside the urethane and the copper bushing is what slides inside the bushing.

So the sleeve just needs to have the same ID as the normal sleeves in the urethane bushing kit, and then the OD needs to match the ID of the bronze bushings.

What size bronze bushings are you using?

Got any installed pictures?

If the bronze bushing is the part sliding on the urethane bushing then why did you go for the $$$$ steel bar stock. Seems like any standard steel would work.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 04:21 PM   #53
SadFab CEO
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,901
Total Cats: 602
Default

i almost bought the isc offset uppers, then after researching, emilios past posts steered me away. i ended up taking his advice and make the front lower offset and couldn't be happier. with delrin in the front and rubber in the rear, binding isnt an issue

https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...9/#post1193050

i was going to make a thread a few weeks ago with all the dimensions of various bushings as i make them throughout the car, starting with the LCA front, but i couldnt find my napkin cad drawing in the garage.
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 04:23 PM   #54
SadFab CEO
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,901
Total Cats: 602
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post

If the bronze bushing is the part sliding on the urethane bushing then why did you go for the $$$$ steel bar stock. Seems like any standard steel would work.
oddly enough, all the discussion on these was in my spherical knuckle thread, we talked about alloys for at least 3 pages i think

https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...cussion-82072/
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 04:26 PM   #55
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,990
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

I'll re-read all of that. It started to go over my head and I got bored at one point.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 04:27 PM   #56
SadFab CEO
iTrader: (3)
 
hi_im_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,901
Total Cats: 602
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
I'll re-read all of that. It started to go over my head and I got bored at one point.
its very dry
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 04:30 PM   #57
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,990
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_im_sean View Post
its very dry
Just got started, its freaking death valley in there. I'll work my way through it.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 04:55 PM   #58
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,990
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

Bob, with the bronze bushings will lubing still be required? How long do you think these will last? Will the bronze wear at some point?
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 04:56 PM   #59
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,475
Total Cats: 114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Ok that makes sense. For some reason I thought the sleeves you made went around the urethane bushings. So these go inside the urethane and the copper bushing is what slides inside the bushing.

So the sleeve just needs to have the same ID as the normal sleeves in the urethane bushing kit, and then the OD needs to match the ID of the bronze bushings.

What size bronze bushings are you using?

Got any installed pictures?

If the bronze bushing is the part sliding on the urethane bushing then why did you go for the $$$$ steel bar stock. Seems like any standard steel would work.
bronze press into the urathane slides on the steel.
bbundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2015, 04:57 PM   #60
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,990
Total Cats: 1,457
Default

Ok so the sliding surface is the steel sleeve and bronze bushing, that makes more sense.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 57 07-19-2017 05:11 PM
15x10 - 15x11 6UL @ 949 Racing emilio700 Wheels and Tires 151 06-02-2017 03:36 PM
Leaky Wilwoods mx592 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 1 10-01-2015 01:45 AM
15x8 wideopens w/re11 3k miles Vtpalom1 Miata parts for sale/trade 4 09-29-2015 12:05 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:38 PM.