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Old 02-26-2015, 05:02 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Bob, with the bronze bushings will lubing still be required? How long do you think these will last? Will the bronze wear at some point?
I suspect lube is not so much required similar to a spherical rod end with Teflon liners. They are cast with por0us bronze impregnated with teflon and oil. I still greased them and the urathane still slides against the chassis at the ends but it is not near as much friction there as what the center shaft surfaces have.
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Old 02-26-2015, 05:04 PM   #62
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Hmmm, I like this. Only issue for me is that you are using V8 control arms right? So you can adjust camber there. I wonder if I would be able to hit good camber numbers without offset bushings.
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Old 02-26-2015, 05:05 PM   #63
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With v8r arms you dont need offset bushings
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Old 02-26-2015, 05:07 PM   #64
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Thought so. All this reminds me why I'm an EE. Forces/physics just never worked right in my head, circuits/software always made sense though.
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Old 02-26-2015, 05:17 PM   #65
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Thought so. All this reminds me why I'm an EE. Forces/physics just never worked right in my head, circuits/software always made sense though.
im the exact opposite. i can find my way around audio circuits like a badass, but thats it. that why i went for ME (never finished though)
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Old 02-26-2015, 05:31 PM   #66
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Combine Bobs solution with Urethane and then do this to the LCA (choose your own extension length), and then there isn't much more you need.

New bolts and fixed shims instead of the OEM camber solution is however an improvement, but I have not even taken a photo of that solution (my shock builder has a set on his racer), even further from making my own set.
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Old 02-26-2015, 07:15 PM   #67
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Combine Bobs solution with Urethane and then do this to the LCA (choose your own extension length), and then there isn't much more you need.

I agree with this. Not a bad solution at all.

Although I do like the adjustable front lower ball joint solution like on the V8R. adjustable there and the rear upper makes it so DIY camber adjustment is relatively quick and easy without screwing everything up so bad it takes hours to get right again. You could actually change settings at an event and do back to back testing that way. If you’ve ever fiddled with aligning a Miata you find screwing with the inboard lowers can make a mess of your alignment in a hurry if you’re not on a full alignment rack with expensive equipment.
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Old 02-26-2015, 08:06 PM   #68
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Damn, I'm REALLY liking that bronze sleeve bearing setup. Nice work. My car is still in winter jackstand mode and just had poly bushings installed... I'm thinking pretty hard about recreating your setup next week before I torque everything and align the car.
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Old 02-26-2015, 08:10 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiklasFalk View Post
Combine Bobs solution with Urethane and then do this to the LCA (choose your own extension length), and then there isn't much more you need.

New bolts and fixed shims instead of the OEM camber solution is however an improvement, but I have not even taken a photo of that solution (my shock builder has a set on his racer), even further from making my own set.
That's exactly what I had in mind. I was going to drill out the 3 spot welds and move the center bolt location and extend the sides with plates. I was shooting for 1/4"to 3/8".
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Old 02-26-2015, 08:45 PM   #70
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My drawing.

You might want to check lengths the V8R rear uppers were a tad longer than OEM. and force fit in. I had to make them longer to work with what they had as well.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf bushed_pivot_sleeves.pdf (42.9 KB, 152 views)
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Old 02-26-2015, 08:53 PM   #71
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Thanks Bob. Energy actually lists all of the dimensions on the parts list:

Energy Suspension 11.18102 HyperFlex Master Kit - Mazda Miata Made by Energy Suspension
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Old 02-26-2015, 09:15 PM   #72
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FWIW, I have 15x9s and ISC offset upper bushings on my NB and they work using 225 Hoosier A6s and 225 Rivals. I haven't tried other tires except to note that 275 Hoosiers do *not* fit. It rubs on the A-arm at full lock (duh, don't use full lock) but other than that I have no rubbing. I currently have 5mm spacers installed because they're required for the 11.75 TSE brakes, but I did run the 225 Hoosiers without the 5mm spacers for a little while.

--Ian
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Old 02-26-2015, 09:21 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpreston View Post
Thanks Bob. Energy actually lists all of the dimensions on the parts list:

Energy Suspension 11.18102 HyperFlex Master Kit - Mazda Miata Made by Energy Suspension
front upper sleeve looks like an oddball if there sheet is right. .813 OD instead of .875.
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Old 02-26-2015, 09:34 PM   #74
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Yeah, I noticed that. Front uppers are easy to pull and re-grease so I'll probably just skip the bronze on those.
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Old 02-26-2015, 09:49 PM   #75
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I've got my lathe guy working on a set like bobs. My solution for the front upper was to say **** it and make some 7/8" OD sleeves, use 1" OD bronze sleeves, and make some aluminum bushings for the upper front arms.

And yeah yeah I'm working on the spherical control arms with more front camber. I have to finish up the rear fixturing design and start making the fixtures.
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Old 02-26-2015, 10:32 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
I've got my lathe guy working on a set like bobs. My solution for the front upper was to say **** it and make some 7/8" OD sleeves, use 1" OD bronze sleeves, and make some aluminum bushings for the upper front arms.

And yeah yeah I'm working on the spherical control arms with more front camber. I have to finish up the rear fixturing design and start making the fixtures.
How much for your lathe guy to make 2 sets? Or to pass along the dimensions/bom/materials/whatnot. (Spoonfeed me )
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Old 02-26-2015, 10:48 PM   #77
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Use bob's drawing or the Energy Suspension document for dimensions.
Onlinemetals 3/4" 4340 for sleeves.
Mcmaster 1688K25 for bronze bushing.

Last edited by jpreston; 03-08-2015 at 04:06 AM. Reason: Bob was right.
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Old 02-26-2015, 10:50 PM   #78
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Did not see a drawing, am I blind?
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Old 02-26-2015, 10:50 PM   #79
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Also, thank you Jeff for spoon feeding.
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Old 02-26-2015, 11:02 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
I suspect lube is not so much required similar to a spherical rod end with Teflon liners. They are cast with por0us bronze impregnated with teflon and oil. I still greased them and the urathane still slides against the chassis at the ends but it is not near as much friction there as what the center shaft surfaces have.
The mcmaster page just says impregnated with oil that contains PTFE particles, so eventually the teflon is going to wash out with the oil. I was just looking for numbers on what hardness steel works best with bronze and I found this blurb:

Frictional coefficients for bronze alloys against steel range between 0.08 and 0.14. During wear, or when there is absolutely no lubricant present, the frictional coefficient may range from about 0.12 to as high as 0.18 to 0.30. By comparison, the frictional coefficient during wear for aluminum on steel is 0.32 and for steel on steel it is 1.00.

So they're still going to work really well if they dry out, but they should be kept lubricated to avoid wear. I'd say for most of our track cars, just greasing them every winter or two is sufficient.
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