Oil Cooler Shopping List
 

Simple question. I'm adding an oil cooler to my race car, if I use a local hydraulic shop to fab the lines for me, is this all I need to order? Will the oil cooler be large enough?

Earl's 16 Row Cooler: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EAR-21610ERL/

Mocal Sandwich Plate - 20mm Thread: http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/p...Sandwich_Plate

Mocal 1/2" BSP x -10 fitting: http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/product/3282/s

Thanks

You're forgetting the most important part, a bigger oil cooler.

I just put that Mocal adapter on my car, now I don't know where I'm gonna put my oil temp probe...

Try to find something with more options.

So the Earl's 16 row isn't big enough? How big should I go?

Get the 8x13 Setrab from Trackspeed and get the lines and adapter from Bat Inc. I don't know why you guys all cry about making SS lines, it's probably because you're full-on homo and functionally women. If you build them yourself they will definitely fit better.

You do realize that properly crimped fittings on hydraulic hoses are much more reliable... right? And if you can't figure out how long your hoses need to be without trail and error, you have more problems than just the obvious homophobia

BUT, thanks for the size recommendation, I'll go with an 8x13 ;)

EDIT: Now that my other questions have been answered, how about a new one. Has anyone found a need to run an Accusump?

I believe BBundy is/was running one? I believe he said something about that when we met at MRLS so you might prod him.

Is a -10 the recommended size? I had just ordered an rx-7 cooler, the mocal plate and -8 fittings.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/120843076454...S:3160&vxp=mtr

Hustler had issues with oil pressures that went away when he switched from -8 lines to -10.

I'm running -8 currently with no known oil pressure issues.

Most people are running -10, I'd suggest that, but obviously I have physical proof in my garage that there's nothing wrong with -8.

Hustler made me buy -10.

No matter how accurate you think you've measured your oil hoses, you will typically have to tweak them.

If you've been too aggressive, you wont be able to connect the last end or they wont have enough length to bend as you intended.

If you've been too lenient, your hoses will be too long and may rub where you don't want.

When everything is tightened up you may want more or less flex to avoid rubbing.

You'll end up with a much better installation if you make the hoses yourself. The hoses aren't difficult to make, just be sure to get the right tools (aluminium AN vice jaws and aluminium AN spanners). I'd never made them before and didn't screw up assembling the hose fittings once (hose lengths were another story) using these instructions:

Generic stainless steel hose assembly Instructions: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/do...ocID=TECH00027
AeroFLow catalog instructions (see top of page 79): http://issuu.com/aeroflow/docs/af_cat_4_web_111111/5

Here's the start of my build thread concerning my oil cooler/relocation kit installation:
http://mx5cartalk.com/forum/viewtopi...1091&start=161

I've used the hydraulic shop method at least 3 times and never had an issue :dunno: To each his own, I guess.

When I built my oil cooler a couple weeks ago I had my local hydraulic shop assemble the lines. I simply had them install 90degree fittings on 2 lines that were about 6 feet long each. I then attached those to the sandwich plate. Then I routed and measured the lengths of them to the oil cooler. I then went back to the hydraulic shop and had them finish the lines with the measurements I made.

why not Tru-Cool coolers? they are less than half the cost:

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/p...ol_Oil_Coolers

8x11 = $64

vs

http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/p...ab_Oil_Coolers

setrab 7.5x13 = $238

Next to zero air flow through those things. They're more of a heat sink than a oil cooler.

Unfortunately I fell for their price though. Do they work? Sure. Great quality, not so great air flow.

So are Setrab coolers better than Mocal coolers?

by all accounts Setrab are the best oil coolers money can by

Tap the pan? :dunno: I've not been impressed with the oil drain plug probe adapter I have... I'm not CR.net low, but I'm low enough to worry.

I thought about running a generic plate with a probe bung + a Mocal 0T2 -10 thermostat, but that's just more connections and more failure points.

I'd love to see some other options as well.

The Glowshift sandwich plate I have has 2 ports on the side that can be used for oil temp sensors or other things. It does not have a thermostat though so that may be a downside.

Street, track, or dual use? What are your oil temps in the colder months?

I would definitely want thermostat control for a dual-use car. Track only car? Not so much. I've known people who drive street cars with coolers and they seem to have issues getting the oil up to operating temp in the winter months. I'm left coast so we actually drive our cars year round :giggle:

Use something like this?
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=837

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1335292655

It is a dual use car. It's primary for track days, but does get driven a good amount on the street when I feel like it. The RX-7 oil cooler I have has a built in thermostat, hence why I went with the glowshift adapter plate instead of the mocal one. I honestly just got the car running with the oil cooler installed. While idling and driving around my neighborhood temps did get up to about 190 degrees. I have no clue what temps would be like during the colder months. I live in SC and was driving my car around with the top down in January and February, so cold is not something I am overly worried about.

RX7 cooler is good flow, good quality, and is a win. With the other ones and a non-thermostatic sandwich plate you could use a Michigan thermostat when you weren't on the track. Down here they call a Michigan thermostat a piece of cardboard over the opening of a heat exchanger. You could uncover the cooler for track days only. You don't really need it other times.

Nice! I was unaware that the RX7 oil coolers were thermostatically controlled. That sounds like the ideal part to use. What year donors should I be looking for?

2nd gen rx7 86-91 as far as I know. 3rd gen was different. Don't think first gen had anything but the water to oil cooler under the oil filter like the Miata has.

Putting a used oil cooler on my motor scares the $@#% out of me... what are guys doing to make sure they are clean? There's a reason the RX-7 it came off of doesn't need it anymore... likely because it had motor problems.

Yeah, there's a greater chance the rotary engine created the problems rather than the oil cooler.

I'll give you a for instance: If we put a miata engine in a F1 car (assuming it was possible), it would be much slower. Would you blame the brakes? Would you blame the suspension? No, it's the motor's fault, not the oil coolers.

Make sure there aren't any leaks, make sure the built in thermostat is opening, and run it. A good dozen members of mt.net are, and NONE have reported oil cooler caused engine failures.

I'm not concerned the oil cooler had a problem, I'm concerned that junk from the failing engine is still in the oil cooler.

run mineral spirits through it.

Is the factory oil/water cooler worth keeping?

I plan to install a mocal plate, -10, and 7x11 this summer. One of my motors has the factory cooler and one doesnt. The one with is 97, 94 without.. I just dont know if it needs to be there or not.

Its' not trial and error, its perfection. Building something on the car will always be a better fit than trading oral services for hydraulic hoses.

I'd run an accusump if I had aero. I'm all a scared woman.

You sound like a huge -----. Clean it out with a water hose, then use it. I did not like the RX7 cooler because its too big and I can't tuck it anywhere. The ability to tuck is very important to me.

I'm not sure if it's worth keeping, I don't use it on my car and my temps are pretty bauce in the 103*f Texas heat.

Have you seen my oil cooler set-up? Why are you not complimenting me by duplicating it? There are two reasons I put everything on the interweb. One is to let everyone know that I and my car are better than anything they will ever know, the other is to help people out on things I've done before them.

Had I not gotten my RX-7 oil cooler for free, I would have copied your oil cooler setup.

I run a mocal fluid transfer pump from the sump through the cooler and back to the sump. Being switched, I can manually flip it on when it's time to race, rather than depend on a tstat. I save the mocal sandwhich plate for accusump to pressurize. I think accusump is worth it just for pre-oiling ability, definitely a worthy investment on a built motor.

Thread jack: Which port on the RX7 oil cooler is inlet? Anyone got a good way of testing the thermostat inside the oil cooler (short of sticking into a pot of water)?

:facepalm:

Does your hose spit out boiling water? If not you aren't cleaning anything but the bypass.

My initial impression of this forum was that most of the people here knew what they where doing... you are quickly changing my mind.

----! He's on to us guys!

I think they are yanking you ding-dong... a good solid soak with mineral spirits will flush everything out of the core and show leaks pretty quickly.

I have a used Setrab cooler from one of the Realtime Integras that used to run Speedvision World Challenge back in the 90's. Its still in my garage somewhere with a broken mount from a front end bump. I wonder if its still good...

Slightly off-topic

What is the general consensus on engine coolant oil "coolers" like you see on a lot of OEM cars?
I know it cant be anything compared to an air heat exchanger, but do they do anything at all really? I have a suspicion that theyre more for warming up the oil than cooling it...

They are called oil coolers, but they're really more for improving oil warmup time than anything else. There's not enough coolant flow through them to offer any significant cooling benefits (IMO). What heat they take out of the oil goes into the coolant in the mixing manifold anyway, back into the engine, so there's no net heat loss from the engine.

My oil temp sender is on a sandwich plate on top of the OEM heat exchanger. While the engine is warming up oil temp lags coolant temp by about 55*F.

I'm thinking now I'd rather have my sender in the sump, since the temps I see now have always been affected by having passed through the heat exchanger immediately prior (so the temps I see will always closely track coolant temp).

I wasn't serious about the water, lol. Can you really picture someone with all this experience and money in a car with a water-hose shoved into one end of the oil cooler to "clean it"? Come on dude. I'd totally re-use an oil cooler, if it came from a blown engine, I'd consider it and what it takes to clean one which I've never done. I'd probably pour acetone or something like that in there, then blow out both sides with compressed air.

If you had read through my epic build thread, you're realize that although you may change your mind on our value, it's highly unlikely that I'd make a mistake like that. You might also want to change the criteria by which you judge us. Agreement or accord with your opinion does not always foster success.

Found this in the Accusump Thread:https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1335380357https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1335380357https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1335380357
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1335380357https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1335380357https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1335380357

Damn, too bad it does not have a thermostat... and its in Japanese... and its not available individually...

Damnit! Sorry... my sense of humor apparently sucks today.

I couldn't agree more about agreement not fostering success... that's why I'm asking for opinions on this in the first place. If someone could recommend a good method of cleaning out an RX7 cooler, I'd be all over it. I just haven't thought of one myself yet.

Regarding the Accusump. Why not just T it into the return line from the oil cooler?

That's what I would do, with a 1-way valve, of course.

I was wondering about the one way valve, but then was thinking that the oil pump would be the "one way valve". (?)

Also, is the oil cooler pre or post oil-filter? If it cools the oil before it enters the filter, then there might be some security about dirt left in the cooler.

I believe that contrary to my logic, the pump does not work as a one-way valve for reasons I do not understand. Also, even if that is the case, you still have ~2' of internal chamber/tuning in the block to pressurize im addion to expect the Accusump to lubricate the rotating bits. Its a small increase in cost to dop the one-way valve, adn engineers created and provided it for a reason. Hopefully someone that knows more than me (doubtful) wll chime in.

I believe it is pre-filter because I think oil feeds from the outside and filters into the center section/threaded pipe. If that's true, which I think it is, I really question the need for cleaning a blow-engine oil cooler but understand that its generally not a good idea to introduce jagged metal into the oiling system in any capacity...especially if and when the oil filter fails.

I just searched through your threads to find your oil cooler setup. Do you have a link handy? :)

+1. He keeps saying "go look in my thread for god-tier oil cooler secrets" and all I find is posts of him worrying about things :giggle:

They switched over from the behive in 84. The 84-85 rx7 oil coolers are about the same as the FC rx7s. Just mounts a little differently.

Regarding cleaning the RX7 cooler, the thermostat is a cartridge that unscrews from the body of the cooler allowing the free exchange of fluids at that point. Just like a night at Hustler's love lair.

Edit: Here is one with it removed:

http://www.reganrotaryracing.com/fc/...lerbyp--------http://memimage.cardomain.com/ride_i...0044_large.jpg
http://www.reganrotaryracing.com/fc/...lerbyp--------

Proof of this? Side by side the Tru-Cool cooler looks like a much better cooler. (granted I am no oil cooler expert, just my opinion) In fact, since we started road racing Legends in '98 all of are over heating problems went away, that is when we went away from Setrab coolers. Plus like Hustler said, they are so much cheaper than Setrabs. And when you buy 20 at a time you get an even larger price break.

FWIW the shop manual for the 2nd gen RX7 says that the oil cooler begins to open between 140-149*F. And yours truly acquired one today from my friendly neighborhood RX7 mechanic shop. Nice.

You can buy a Setrab 7.5 x 13 used from Roush Yates for under $100: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Setrab-...4e7f6f&vxp=mtr

Considering they were used for probably 1 NASCAR race, it's a good way to get one for less than 1/2 price.

Here's my take:

1. Thermostat. I see you live in WV. I'm in the northeast and run at tracks as far north as Ontario Canada and as far south (so far) as the boarder of NC. A thermostat is fine but not mandatory. A cardboard cutout zip tied to the front & back of the cooler makes a cheap and easy shroud for cold climates. That said, for a mix of daily & track driving in temp ranges from 20°-100°F, a thermostat would make life a lot easier. Same goes for rainy days, where a rained-on cooler works way too well. I have an external thermostat, the "H" shaped one by Mocal.

2. RX7 Cooler. The last thing the oil goes through, even if you have a remote cooler, is the filter (unless you have a remote filter too and routed the hoses wrong). So I'd guess a used cooler would be fine, but if that isn't your style, then there's nothing wrong with going with a brandy-new one. I did.

3. Stock Water/Oil Cooler. You don't need the stock water/oil 'cooler', but it WILL help your car warm-up faster, and it actually does an OK job with cooling (OK, not great). You'd be amazed at how long it takes your oil to get up to operating temperature. This happens way, way, way after water temps raise to operating temps.

4. Lines. If I had the choice, and I did, I would much, much prefer the ability to fix, modify, or create new lines at the track. Crimped fittings on custom hoses are fine, but have a backup plan or carry spares. I drive pretty far away for some of my events and would be PO'd to find myself in need of an essential hose that I can't get locally. This is why I made my own lines and carry the equipment and extra hose should I need to service them at the track (which I've never had to do).

5. Accusump. I have one, 2 quarts, in the trunk. Data showed that oil pressure was dropping to single digits at the end of heavy braking zones. With Accusump, problem solved. It is also nice to let 40-30 psi of oil pressure flow through the engine for 10 seconds before a cold-start.

6. I see you are in WV. If you'd like to take a peek at my setup, I'll be at Summit Point (main) on Mon-Tues May 7 & 8. Hell, if you want to run those days, let me know. I expect pretty much open track all day, track fee is only $125! Day 1 practice, day 2 practice + time trials with trophies, etc. Plenty of spots open.

Hope this helps,

Will

Thanks for the great input Will!

In case anyone cares, I went with:

-Mocal sandwich plate to help with warm up and avoid over cooling
-Cheap B&M cooler because a lot of the local guys have had good success with them, and its easy to replace if its not good enough
-Hydraulic shop lines, but I'll have them make a spare as a backup

And I'm planning on getting an Accusump at some point, just not right now.

I can't make it to Summit those days, gotta work... but its sounds like a good time, thanks for the invite!

Nick: Good find on those used Setrabs! If the B&M doesn't work out, I'll definitely grab one of those (and soak in in mineral spirits :P)

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1335534754
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1335534754
There is a 3rd arm-mount thingy behind it, where the horn bolted up.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1335534754
I haven't gone over 230*f with this set-up yet, the same cooler mounted under the car maintained 230*f in 103* heat in traffic.


Sorry to tell you after the fact, but those B&M/Canton brass oil coolers are huge pieces of ----. I could not get oil temps below 275-290*f and I had a very big cooler mounted under the car. I switched to an Earl's (Mocal built) which is ~60% of the Canton's size and temps dropped dramatically and stay at 230*f. I recommend you not waste your time with that POS.

Hustler wins with placement. That plus a vented hood would be tits.

The B&M is 100% aluminum :dunno:

Glad to help! Maybe someday us mid-atlantic/northeast MT.net guys will actually get together at a track event! I travel all over but have yet to meet any that are outside of my 'group'.

Why not place it where it can get air flowing through it? Just curious.

(I have that area blocked off in my car to force air through the radiator)