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I've read pretty much every thread on this site regarding front splitter designs and really impressed with the ingenuity of forum members. There seems to be two schools of thought regarding how to attach. One is beefy and rigid to survive significant impacts, the other is flexible to either absorb energy or breakaway to avoid collateral damage. I'm leaning towards simple and flexible for my splitter, using cables to support the front of the splitter. I've read some feedback that the cable design does not prevent air from pushing the front of the splitter up under certain condition, such as fully unloading the front.
That's the setup, here's my question: Has anyone tried attaching a lift support from the bumper to the front of the splitter to create constant downward force to keep the splitter at the ideal angle, which is set by the cable length (think the piston lift that helps you open your hood)? You would preload the lift to give you some tension. And in the event of an impact the lift might provide some give, as opposed to rigid turnbukles. This site sells custom sizes and piston force. Or you might find some in a junkyard that fit the application.
Good idea? Stupid idea?
I know these types of lift operate more effectively when the piston speed is low, and that asking the piston to move under rapid acceleration (a high speed impact) won't provide much travel, but might be a good compromise between letting the splitter hang on cables or rigid with turnbuckles or other bracing.
Tried my hand at fiberglass and built molds to make diffusers for the splitter. Turned out pretty good I think. Probably spent 100$ to make the pair between learning and making a final product.
My company's web filter loses its **** at that link. Along with a ton of SSL errors before I even get that far.
I can't vouch for this company or their site. Popped up with a google search. Visualize a plethora of options. But where to acquire the lift is not really relevant to my question.
I've read pretty much every thread on this site regarding front splitter designs and really impressed with the ingenuity of forum members. There seems to be two schools of thought regarding how to attach. One is beefy and rigid to survive significant impacts, the other is flexible to either absorb energy or breakaway to avoid collateral damage. I'm leaning towards simple and flexible for my splitter, using cables to support the front of the splitter. I've read some feedback that the cable design does not prevent air from pushing the front of the splitter up under certain condition, such as fully unloading the front.
That's the setup, here's my question: Has anyone tried attaching a lift support from the bumper to the front of the splitter to create constant downward force to keep the splitter at the ideal angle, which is set by the cable length (think the piston lift that helps you open your hood)? You would preload the lift to give you some tension. And in the event of an impact the lift might provide some give, as opposed to rigid turnbukles. This site sells custom sizes and piston force. Or you might find some in a junkyard that fit the application.
Good idea? Stupid idea?
I know these types of lift operate more effectively when the piston speed is low, and that asking the piston to move under rapid acceleration (a high speed impact) won't provide much travel, but might be a good compromise between letting the splitter hang on cables or rigid with turnbuckles or other bracing.
They work, just don't go too high on the lift rating in pounds.
Just need to also determine the length by first attaching with all-thread on some other means to be able to adjust it once it is mounted.
They work, just don't go too high on the lift rating in pounds.
Just need to also determine the length by first attaching with all-thread on some other means to be able to adjust it once it is mounted.
Got it. Thanks. The vendor in the link can custom make lifts from 20 lbs to several hundred pounds of force. I was thinking somewhere in the 30 lb range.
Plan A is to set the length with cables and a turnbuckle. That will ensure the correct height of the front of the splitter and provide fine adjustments. the cables job is to support the downward forces at speed. The lift is to keep the nose down and some rebound at impact.
Really fascinating idea about the drag from each side of the car cancelling each other out. Sounds like nearly free lunch. Too bad it sounds like it is difficult to get tuned right.
Really fascinating idea about the drag from each side of the car cancelling each other out. Sounds like nearly free lunch. Too bad it sounds like it is difficult to get tuned right.
That is fascinating and very cool. I wonder if we will see a wider adoption of this in closed wheel race cars, and a departure from canards to keep that side-spilling air flow cleaner....
The AMB infinity wings development is a design mile stone in front aero IMO.
As much as I would love to fabricate and try a set (which I definitely can) I wouldn't do so out of pure respect for what Andrew accomplished and if one of my cars will get this upgrade it's because I spent the money on having Andrew designing them for my car.
Unfortunately, I have a feeling that within a year or two they will be copied by so many others that this eat up into his well deserved revenue..
Not to take anything away from AMB's excellent work but off-axis wings have been around in F1 for quite a while. Further, the entire body of a NASCAR is angled to generate downforce and reduce drag when turning left. What's unique in the Infinity wing is the application of the principles to a closed wheel car. Innovative in that respect for sure.
I would be pretty sure that he knew the minute it went public it was lost to the world.......ESPECIALLY when he did at least one very public video (Kyle Drives or more?) describing how and why it works.
That isn't the general behavior of someone trying to maintain a secret advantage.....IMO anyway YMMV.
Also, A year or two... really?...my guess would be days, if that!
Really the only difference between the two designs that I have changed is the location and direction of the diffuser section of the splitter, and the shape at the front, trying to follow the contour of the car and aiming for 80mm protrusion.
Being the custodian of Tim's old splitter, I can report that on my car it helped contribute to being 1.32% faster in 2017 when compared to the 2016 at WTAC. In context another NA car that also competed in 2016 was only 0.74% faster. The car had no had any power changes, it is still just 194 RWHP.
How was the improvement achieved:
- 8" rims vs 7.5". No weight advantage, tyre size same each year (New/fresh 205/50/15 AD08R's). Possibly small gain in corner speeds.
- No brake booster. Much better control of brakes. Allowed later braking and better trail braking.
- Air dam - Corner speed was slightly up on 2016.
- Reduced ride height all round by about 10mm.
- Wing angle change (increase AOA) - main straight speed was down slightly on 2016. However corner speed was slightly increased. A decrease in the wing angle was tested during practice (suggested by Kyle Forster) due to the new air dam as I had not changed the wing angle since putting on the air dam. A quick look at the data showed no real gain in straight line speed and the car was 'uncomfortable' going through T1 (high speed corner) of SMSP. Post session discussion with suggests that before the air dam the wing angle was probably not 'optimal'.
- Removal rear mud guards - Late suggestion from Kyle Forster (Kyle Engineers https://www.youtube.com/user/Kyleengineers) may have resulted in less drag. But the increased wing angle may have used the gain.
- Seat time - possibly the biggest gain was had as a result of this.
- Data analysis (Racepak Data) - this also helped with where I needed to improve and a concerted effort was made to 'fix' these areas. The time picked up the the last 1/2 of the track showed.
2018 will see more work done on reducing drag with Kyle as well as getting some 200kg of weight out of the car.
Ducted in the radiator area because I didn't like any of the locations for the brake duct openings on the front of the bumper cover.
Then decided to build a splitter/undertray due to having to remove the stock undertray.
First I built a regular flat splitter/undertray out of 6mm alumalite
Then I thought about playing around with the idea of a diffused splitter/undertray so I built one of those. The diffuser section is about 11" wide and 8" long on each side. 12 degree angle.
Observations:
First we ran with the flat splitter. Saw a significant increase in front end grip. Had to increase the angle of the rear spoiler quite a bit a;long with disconnecting the rear sway bar.
Ran an 8 hour race on Saturday at Hallett with WRL using the diffused splitter. Great front end grip! Had an off with 6 minutes left in the race that damaged the splitter. We pulled the diffused splitter off and installed the flat splitter for the Sunday race.
With no other changes other than starting pressures being 1 psi lower in the rear, the car had a slightly noticeable lower amount of grip in the front. Cannot say for certain that it was due to the splitter but indications are that it did have some effect.
Being the custodian of Tim's old splitter, I can report that on my car it helped contribute to being 1.32% faster in 2017 when compared to the 2016 at WTAC. In context another NA car that also competed in 2016 was only 0.74% faster. The car had no had any power changes, it is still just 194 RWHP.
How was the improvement achieved:
- 8" rims vs 7.5". No weight advantage, tyre size same each year (New/fresh 205/50/15 AD08R's). Possibly small gain in corner speeds.
- No brake booster. Much better control of brakes. Allowed later braking and better trail braking.
- Air dam - Corner speed was slightly up on 2016.
- Reduced ride height all round by about 10mm.
- Wing angle change (increase AOA) - main straight speed was down slightly on 2016. However corner speed was slightly increased. A decrease in the wing angle was tested during practice (suggested by Kyle Forster) due to the new air dam as I had not changed the wing angle since putting on the air dam. A quick look at the data showed no real gain in straight line speed and the car was 'uncomfortable' going through T1 (high speed corner) of SMSP. Post session discussion with suggests that before the air dam the wing angle was probably not 'optimal'.
- Removal rear mud guards - Late suggestion from Kyle Forster (Kyle Engineers https://www.youtube.com/user/Kyleengineers) may have resulted in less drag. But the increased wing angle may have used the gain.
- Seat time - possibly the biggest gain was had as a result of this.
- Data analysis (Racepak Data) - this also helped with where I needed to improve and a concerted effort was made to 'fix' these areas. The time picked up the the last 1/2 of the track showed.
2018 will see more work done on reducing drag with Kyle as well as getting some 200kg of weight out of the car.
Great to see you out there. Noticed a few of those updates right away looking at the car via the live feed. Is the AD08R only available in the 205 for 15"? If so have you considered bumping to a larger wheel dia. to get more width option?
10-04-2017, 11:29 AM
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