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Radiator Hood Vent
6 Attachment(s)
I have been looking at different designs for this on other cars on the web, but haven't seen much in the line of Miata's. If anyone else have seen good designs, please post them up. I want a open discussion and ideas on the subject.
So after doing some measurements this is what I came up with for the front half of the duct. I will be going turbo eventually, so this design will be changing down the road. If you have specific build questions on the car and not on the subject, please don't post them on here. Go to my build https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...2/#post1088581 I cut the steel bumper, toe hooks and top radiator support to lean the radiator from a 7 deg angle to a 13 deg angle. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1388896196 After some test fitting https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1388896196 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1388896196 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1388896196 I'm not done mounting but you get what it looks like https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1388896196 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1388896196 More pics to come on part 2 I hope this help some other people with their race cars, I hope to see some more. |
that seems so much easier without an intercooler in the way
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Ducting looks great. Im a bit curious what you are going to do with the naca ducts already in the hood if you are going to put a vent behind it.
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The hood will be changed soon. This one is more or less a test cut hood. (NACA is from a previous project that didn't work)
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This is the only picture I can find of my old hood. I just cut a rectangle the width of the radiator that stretched from the radiator to the valve cover, and then bolted a piece of 1/8" aluminum angle to the front edge to create a simple louver. It dropped IATs significantly and worked great on track, but I was still street driving the car at the time and it was terrible when it rained because the rain just dumped onto the alternator belt and it would slip like crazy at cruising RPMs. I should have just cut the front edge and the side edges and bent the cutout down into a nice radius, then riveted on some side panels. Whatever you do, just make sure the belts and any electrical connectors are covered.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1388905997 |
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https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1388908422
nniiiiiiiicccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc eeeeee !! |
Originally Posted by joyrider
(Post 1088609)
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1388908422
nniiiiiiiicccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc eeeeee !! |
My new setup will look a lot like #2, but will seal to the hood more like #3.
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Originally Posted by 1993ka24det
(Post 1088644)
What kind of car is that?
Builds>> Drifting Not Enough? Add Some Time Attack | Speedhunters |
Any concerns about rigidity after cutting that much of the cross bracing out?
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No, due to its in front of the front suspension. The stuff in front of the front suspension and in rear of the rear suspension doesn't have much to do with the stiffness of the chassis.
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Very good work. The only thing i would say is that the opening is way to big for a N/A miata. iirc measure the radiator and divide by 3 this should roughly be the size of your opening.
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Originally Posted by Twibs415
(Post 1088801)
Very good work. The only thing i would say is that the opening is way to big for a N/A miata. iirc measure the radiator and divide by 3 this should roughly be the size of your opening.
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hmm, still looks way big though. look at the 949racing cars and jprestons pic. iirc my car is a 18x6 or so and i could close it up more.
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Originally Posted by Twibs415
(Post 1088801)
Very good work. The only thing i would say is that the opening is way to big for a N/A miata. iirc measure the radiator and divide by 3 this should roughly be the size of your opening.
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I am going to be redoing my air dam and i think i can make it a bunch smaller by having the mouth radiused into the ducting. The radiused edge will be more aero than a 90 degree lip and should force more air in for that particular size.
how it currently sits. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1388993859 |
Originally Posted by Twibs415
(Post 1088850)
I am going to be redoing my air dam and i think i can make it a bunch smaller by having the mouth radiused into the ducting. The radiused edge will be more aero than a 90 degree lip and should force more air in for that particular size.
how it currently sits. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1388993859 |
Originally Posted by jpreston
(Post 1088841)
Yep, I somehow just noticed the last 2 pics in the first post and was about to say the same thing. Reducing the size of the radiator inlet is a big part of the drag reduction from an EP airdam. I just went out and measured my cutout- it's 4x18" with no mesh or ducting behind it, and my temp gauge stays pegged at 180 deg thermostat temp (I know, I need a 195... lack of research up front + begi spacer + lazy) while on track. The cutouts on the 949 cars appear to be around the same size or even smaller, plus they use different types of mesh to cut down airflow further based on track temp. With ducting, I wouldn't be surprised if 50 sq. in. or less were plenty.
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130hp. Factory internals, factory radiator, coolant reroute.
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Just for reference, here's a frontal pic of my RX7. I was worried I'd be too small on ducted inlet size. It has a typical rabbit mesh covering the opening. With a 383 cu. in V8 in the engine bay, I couldn't get the car over the other side of 180°F after making repeated 7200 RPM pulls uphill. Inlet opening is right at 1/3 of the radiator surface area, and had no outlet ducting.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1389062371 |
Originally Posted by Supe
(Post 1089161)
Just for reference, here's a frontal pic of my RX7. I was worried I'd be too small on ducted inlet size. It has a typical rabbit mesh covering the opening. With a 383 cu. in V8 in the engine bay, I couldn't get the car over the other side of 180°F after making repeated 7200 RPM pulls uphill. Inlet opening is right at 1/3 of the radiator surface area, and had no outlet ducting.
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Just finished the inlet ducting for my new radiator/intercooler positions. Ducting is designed in pieces with quick track-side service/access to surrounding things in mind. Everywhere two pieces meet and where the ducting meets a heat exchanger is tightly sealed with adhesive-backed closed-cell foam strips.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397855571 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397855571 http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps21466b41.jpg Working on oil cooler inlet for the new oil cooler position, then will move on to ducting all the outlets for everything. -Ryan |
Regarding the hood vent, you've already done the biggest thing to make it more possible and effective to properly duct the radiator on an N/A car out of the hood and that is to tilt the radiator further forward. Now you just build a duct, pretty simple. You've got enough photo content of super/race cars and how they route that duct, just copy.
The only bit you have to be a little clever about is how you choose to join whatever portion of the duct attaches to the hood with whatever portion remains fixed to the radiator, but there's plenty of ways to accomplish that detailed in said pics. -Ryan |
I'm confused by your radiator layout, do you have the top of heat exchanger tilted back so the airflow comes in along the top (parallel to the face)?
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Whats the stick looking part on the last photo, the pass?
Thanks, Dann |
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1123597)
Whats the stick looking part on the last photo, the pass?
Thanks, Dann |
Painted steel?
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Originally Posted by ecc3189
(Post 1123592)
I'm confused by your radiator layout, do you have the top of heat exchanger tilted back so the airflow comes in along the top (parallel to the face)?
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1123597)
Whats the stick looking part on the last photo, the pass?
Thanks, Dann -Ryan |
So the air will go in through your inlet duct and pass through the upper intercoolee and exit out an opening in the hood while the air going through the dmradiator that is tilted back will exit where exactly?
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Originally Posted by ThePass
(Post 1123676)
There's an intercooler that isn't in the picture that seals over the top hole if that's what you mean..? It's a V-mount setup.
-Ryan |
Originally Posted by circuitmstr74
(Post 1123797)
So the air will go in through your inlet duct and pass through the upper intercoolee and exit out an opening in the hood while the air going through the dmradiator that is tilted back will exit where exactly?
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this is why I love this site, all sorts of new(to me) ideas. I hate how miatas don't have the space for parallel heat exchangers and this is a cool solution. Too bad it prevents you from bringing the air after the radiator up through the hood
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Originally Posted by thasac
(Post 1123804)
I suspect into the engine bay "like" an OEM radiator ...???????
I suspect that the plan is that the air passing through the radiator will go under the car between the bottom of the car and the undertray, exiting out the top of the diffuser, but I could be wrong. Or maybe it exits behind the front wheels? |
Originally Posted by krazykarl
(Post 1123825)
I think the question was posed knowing that he's got a full flat undertray on the car, which is a bit of a departure from OEM.
I suspect that the plan is that the air passing through the radiator will go under the car between the bottom of the car and the undertray, exiting out the top of the diffuser, but I could be wrong. Or maybe it exits behind the front wheels? The pic probably would've made more sense with the intercooler in place, but it's currently "under construction" - I'm learning to TIG aluminum for this project so that I can modify the outlets on the intercooler and fab new intake piping for this new setup. -Ryan |
I really like the layout for this. I would love to see the ducting to the rear of the fenders just to see how it routes around everything. Apart from the bracing for the hood pins and the cross member you added for the IC mount, did you have to do any other reinforcement? I'm planning to use cheap temporary ducting for my first track event so I haven't nailed down a permanent design in sheet metal yet.
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Originally Posted by ecc3189
(Post 1123812)
this is why I love this site, all sorts of new(to me) ideas. I hate how miatas don't have the space for parallel heat exchangers and this is a cool solution. Too bad it prevents you from bringing the air after the radiator up through the hood
there is PLENTY of room for parallel heat exchangers. You could stack an oil cooler, intercooler, a/c condensor, and radiator without any issue if you wanted. |
Originally Posted by ThePass
(Post 1123952)
Bingo :) the radiator's exit is ducted just as much as the inlet; it's being routed out of the fenders behind the front wheels. No air under the car this way. Those who have seen my front fender setup will understand how this will work pretty well ;)
The pic probably would've made more sense with the intercooler in place, but it's currently "under construction" - I'm learning to TIG aluminum for this project so that I can modify the outlets on the intercooler and fab new intake piping for this new setup. -Ryan |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1124007)
do you mean side-by-side?
there is PLENTY of room for parallel heat exchangers. You could stack an oil cooler, intercooler, a/c condensor, and radiator without any issue if you wanted. Other cars don't have this problem since they are tall enough to have space to put the IC completely under the radiator so they don't share air. Not saying any of the setups I've seen on here don't work great, I just want to find the setup that makes the most logical sense in my head from a drag vs. cooling balance. The only reason I've not considered top mount intercoolers is the height of the mass but really an IC and piping isn't that much weight and I'm guessing ThePass lost that weight in cutting the rad support up there |
Originally Posted by krazykarl
(Post 1124039)
Have any pics of the ducting on the back side? this is shaping up to be the best looking cooling setup I've seen on a miata. Where's the oil cooler going?
Originally Posted by ecc3189
(Post 1124042)
Not saying any of the setups I've seen on here don't work great, I just want to find the setup that makes the most logical sense in my head from a drag vs. cooling balance. The only reason I've not considered top mount intercoolers is the height of the mass but really an IC and piping isn't that much weight and I'm guessing ThePass lost that weight in cutting the rad support up there
I am sure the center of mass of the rad/IC has shifted an inch or two higher, but overall I don't think it's too bad considering the oem metal removed as well as how significantly lower the radiator and all of its water weight sits now. -Ryan |
double post
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Originally Posted by ecc3189
(Post 1124042)
Not saying any of the setups I've seen on here don't work great, I just want to find the setup that makes the most logical sense in my head from a drag vs. cooling balance. The only reason I've not considered top mount intercoolers is the height of the mass but really an IC and piping isn't that much weight and I'm guessing ThePass lost that weight in cutting the rad support up there
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1124093)
this suggests you haven't seen Savington's setup.
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1 Attachment(s)
https://www.miataturbo.net/general-m...airflow-37262/
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1398182375 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...d_miata_03.jpg his intercooler was angled down in front of the radiator, with its own ducting/mouth gathering airflow directly through it, with the radiator getting its own clean air as well. He had better pics somewhere else that I can't find. thesnowboarder copied the setup: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1314212044 |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1124102)
https://www.miataturbo.net/general-m...airflow-37262/
his intercooler was angled down in front of the radiator, with its own ducting/mouth gathering airflow directly through it, with the radiator getting its own clean air as well. He had better pics somewhere else that I can't find. thesnowboarder copied the setup: I like that routing since you don't have to do significant fabrication to reposition the radiator |
I think that whenever Theseus (Savington's car) rises again, the cooling stystem will be much improved over that old setup. That also only worked for a baby-size intercooler, which he moved on from later.
One massive benefit of the V-mount is significantly shorter piping to/from the intercooler (better throttle response as well as few potential failure points w/ less couplers/clamps), which isn't at all achieved with a low-mounted intercooler. -Ryan |
Just occurred to me this is a big hijack of OP's thread, sorry about that.
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 1124102)
https://www.miataturbo.net/general-m...airflow-37262/
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1398182375 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...d_miata_03.jpg his intercooler was angled down in front of the radiator, with its own ducting/mouth gathering airflow directly through it, with the radiator getting its own clean air as well. He had better pics somewhere else that I can't find. thesnowboarder copied the setup: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1314212044 |
2 Attachment(s)
Finished the intercooler hood vent today:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1400660193 http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w...psfc2f2d00.jpg https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1400660193 |
Looks great! How did you get the smooth bends in the duct?
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Holy shit. That looks nice!
EDIT: Can we get a lower shot from the front? |
Originally Posted by ecc3189
(Post 1133044)
Looks great! How did you get the smooth bends in the duct?
Originally Posted by slmhofy
(Post 1133093)
Holy shit. That looks nice!
EDIT: Can we get a lower shot from the front? The duct will look less out of place when I do the vinyl wrap in the next couple weeks. I might add a couple fins/louvers to the vent today. Have been going back and forth about it in my head.. -Ryan |
Not that our opinion matters that much, but cut up a couple pieces of cardboard and place them where you're thinking of putting the louvers. Actually that sounds like it might be a little hard.
I think it looks great as it. Especially how you added a hump to the front to help create that low pressure zone. I think this looks as nice as the one that guy with the GSX made, if not nicer. And I thought he did an awesome job. |
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Right, because cutting up cardboard is a lot more difficult than cutting and shaping alumiunum ;)
But there are enough pics floating around from that illustrate what I'm considering: C7 ZO6 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1400702162 C6R https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1400702162 My thinking is that this helps make flow out of the vent linear, and perhaps also keeps the air as it passes over the vent from tumbling down behind the front edge and obstructing the outward flow from the vent. But, then there are cases against needing these from the same boys: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1400702162 Which leads me to thinking that the more sealed, smoother, more controlled the path from heat exchanger out is, the less those louvers are needed. I think I'm seeing a trend that the more turbulent and unmanaged the air is below the vent, then louvres are used - i.e. above wheel wells or on a hood where there isn't perfect ducting up to it. But then I don't think they could hurt, and might help a bit.. many racecars just go with a big hole with a really good duct. -Ryan |
I see what you mean, and I agree with what you're saying. I also heard that the louvered were there to help "smooth" the transition from where it was going, to the higher pressure, faster moving areas of the hood surface.
I think what you've made so far definitely looks good enough and fits into the scheme of what that 3rd vett has and what that awesome looking BMW car was running. |
Originally Posted by ThePass
(Post 1124240)
I think that whenever Theseus (Savington's car) rises again, the cooling stystem will be much improved over that old setup. That also only worked for a baby-size intercooler, which he moved on from later.
That IC duct is balleur. |
Ive been looking around on the internet and found some people making a hood vent for their radiator. Then using a front diffuser behind the splitter to supply air to the intercooler and vents the intercooler air into the engine bay/down the trani tunnel (above the flat underbody).
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That's a pretty cool idea. Packaging may be tough though.
Street tuning commenced today. 7-mount works almost too well, might remove one of the fans because I don't think I'll ever need two. And IAT's were 5-6* above ambient during highway pulls. Win. -Ryan |
Originally Posted by ThePass
(Post 1133792)
That's a pretty cool idea. Packaging may be tough though.
Street tuning commenced today. 7-mount works almost too well, might remove one of the fans because I don't think I'll ever need two. And IAT's were 5-6* above ambient during highway pulls. Win. -Ryan |
Originally Posted by ThePass
(Post 1133792)
That's a pretty cool idea. Packaging may be tough though.
Street tuning commenced today. 7-mount works almost too well, might remove one of the fans because I don't think I'll ever need two. And IAT's were 5-6* above ambient during highway pulls. Win. -Ryan |
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