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Old 02-10-2016, 12:06 AM   #1
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Default Roof or no roof...weight v Aero.

I have been trying to buy a damaged race roof cheap from a supplier but he is out of town...was hoping to have it fitted and ready to race on Saturday....

Between the race weight roof and the new f/glass race weight boot lid I was hoping to drop a decent amount of weight and have a crack and my PB lap time.

Turns out neither the roof or boot will be ready and I suddenly thought had the brain wave... save even more weight and just take the whole bloody roof off.

Now I can't decide whether the Aero loss will be offset by the weight loss....

Anyone care to elaborate....?

track is approx 2.8km long with only one main straight that will have a top speed around `90 - 200 KPH.
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Old 02-10-2016, 12:11 AM   #2
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aero > weight in this case. I've found the hard top to be worth 1-2 seconds depending on the track.
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Old 02-10-2016, 12:26 AM   #3
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Do you intended to sawsall the windshield off?
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Old 02-10-2016, 03:10 AM   #4
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not at this point...
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Old 02-10-2016, 01:22 PM   #5
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Without a doubt run the top! Weight is ~ linear penalty, Aero penalty is squared.
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Old 02-10-2016, 01:38 PM   #6
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Hard top is worth the weight. There's a local track here with a huge straightaway, even on a 120 to 140HP Miata it's worth about 6 to 10MPH at the end of the straight. Lap times are much better at all tracks with it on.
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Old 02-10-2016, 01:50 PM   #7
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Theres a picture somewhere where 949 (i think, may have been someone else) ran a piece of coroplast on top of the cage, and recieved some aero benefit.
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Old 02-10-2016, 02:16 PM   #8
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Roof is always better.
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Old 02-10-2016, 03:36 PM   #9
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Even with autocross?
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Old 02-10-2016, 03:42 PM   #10
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Maybe not for something like an ES car. CSP might be a wash. Competitive SSM cars have them.
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Old 02-10-2016, 03:43 PM   #11
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Thanks!
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Old 02-10-2016, 04:25 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Theres a picture somewhere where 949 (i think, may have been someone else) ran a piece of coroplast on top of the cage, and recieved some aero benefit.
I know AJ Hartman Racing did this on his chumpcar miata to avoid OEM hardtop penalty.

Edit - Looking at it he obviously used either carbon fiber or glass that he had laying around. Not coroplast. Similar idea.

(sorry for potato quality, only shot I could find)
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Old 02-10-2016, 05:06 PM   #13
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This is where virtual dyno is really cool. Make a 4th gear pull with the top and without the top, don't correct for the weight difference, and it'll give you an answer which is faster for any given speed.

I logged a couple pulls a long time ago in a NA8 with headlights up vs down and the areo difference showed up pretty big above 40mph.

I feel like you could pretty near pinpoint the speed where your areo advantage overtook the weight advantage and it'd give you a clearcut answer to your question.

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Old 02-10-2016, 05:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Maybe not for something like an ES car. CSP might be a wash. Competitive SSM cars have them.
Only a couple do. It's not worth the weight, like cool though. WE don't go fast enough for drag to matter and if you can't drastically over power your front aero with your rear then your wing sucks
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Old 02-11-2016, 12:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdexta View Post
This is where virtual dyno is really cool. Make a 4th gear pull with the top and without the top, don't correct for the weight difference, and it'll give you an answer which is faster for any given speed.

I logged a couple pulls a long time ago in a NA8 with headlights up vs down and the areo difference showed up pretty big above 40mph.

I feel like you could pretty near pinpoint the speed where your areo advantage overtook the weight advantage and it'd give you a clearcut answer to your question.

Speaking of, do you template for a stock NA8? I downloaded virtual dyno the other day, but all the settings it needs looks like Greek and I just wanted to mess around with it for fun.
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Old 02-11-2016, 08:51 PM   #16
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How much does the "race roof" weigh? They are available here in the states at about 11lbs before you add the poly window.
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Old 02-11-2016, 08:52 PM   #17
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What about hard top vs soft top? Any lap time time difference there???
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Old 02-11-2016, 09:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neddy View Post
What about hard top vs soft top? Any lap time time difference there???
I've never been to a track that allows the soft top to be up.
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Old 02-11-2016, 11:12 PM   #19
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Quote:
How much does the "race roof" weigh? They are available here in the states at about 11lbs before you add the poly window.
I imagine the same, its just a fibreglass outer skin so should be in the ball park...we have to have a 5mm Poly windows (and ali bracing) where some countries can use 4mm.

Two guys who race in the same Classic Japanese class I do have done it already and say the weight saving is significant. they told me the figures at the time but i forget now...I just know its the next stage of car delveopment
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Old 02-12-2016, 02:06 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Only a couple do. It's not worth the weight, like cool though. WE don't go fast enough for drag to matter and if you can't drastically over power your front aero with your rear then your wing sucks
Mine weighs 11 lbs with poly window. I think it is worth 11 for autocross but not if it is 45 lbs like a stock one. On the track you want the top regardless.
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