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Old 10-15-2011, 06:09 PM   #1
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Default Setup of 949 Race Clutch

I've adjusted the bottom actuator rod of the clutch pedal, but still hear a noise when the clutch goes to the floor. Not a throwout bearing whirl either. Anyone have any suggestions for helping me get this set up? I called Emilio and left a message.

EDIT: twin organic.

Operation range is very narrow and at the bottom. I just want to make sure this is normal and not set up incorrectly.

Last edited by ILoveOffRamps; 10-15-2011 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 10-15-2011, 06:59 PM   #2
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How long have you used it?
Mine sounded and felt strange when I first tried to make careful shifts on stands (and was dragging a bit), but after the first testdrive the strange sounds went away, just the plingelingeling from the loose pressure plate when the pedal is pressed down (but that's expected with this construction).

Single organic in my case. The short throw and instant rev change is a blast at track (flatshifting to 5th was not smooth before).
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Old 10-15-2011, 07:55 PM   #3
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I've had it about 10 minutes. Just fired the car up for the first time.
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Old 10-16-2011, 12:29 AM   #4
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can you record the noise?

a twin plate clutch generally makes a noise with the pedal to the floor.

you can kinda hear it when i go "under the car" at 16 and 19 seconds.

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Old 10-16-2011, 10:33 PM   #5
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Did you shorten the clutch rod or limit the pedal travel with a clutchstop?
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Old 10-16-2011, 11:22 PM   #6
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It's going to sound like loose metal rattling around. Because that is exactly what is happening with the metal plate between the friction disks.

(I e-mailed Emilio about this too, I wonder how many times he's answered this question)
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Old 10-16-2011, 11:43 PM   #7
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If you have reduced the clutch pedal throw correctly, any further whirling noise is normal.
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Old 10-17-2011, 11:19 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post

Did you shorten the clutch rod or limit the pedal travel with a clutchstop?
No clutch stop. Only shortened the rod on the pedal. I think I might have shortened it too much.

I'll try to get a recording of it's behaviors tonight.
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Old 10-18-2011, 12:47 AM   #9
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Starting at the top of the pedal, depress slowly until you can just barely get the car in and out of gear. If the noise you are hearing is present then, it is normal.

If you can press the clutch down significantly further than that, you didn't shorten the rod enough.
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Old 10-18-2011, 02:44 AM   #10
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So, how is this clutch on the street. One of these may end up in my car pretty soon.
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Old 10-18-2011, 03:23 AM   #11
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So, how is this clutch on the street. One of these may end up in my car pretty soon.
I had a hard time to get used to it moving around in the pits. Maybe I have been too cautious and have shorten the throw too much (shifting standing still is not effortless).

Some street driving would probably not be a problem (it's not that hard to load/unload if you make sure no one is in the way. Modulation takes training.), but it's not something I'd lend to anyone and expect them to enjoy as a DD.
But as with any quirky mod on your enthusiast car, it makes it even more special

My first test run was a bit special, since it did drag a bit (hard to get into reverse etc), but it loosened up after about 20 minutes of big smile shifting (by-by tire-shirp at poorly rev-matched down-shifts).
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Old 10-18-2011, 04:34 AM   #12
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It wouldn't be a lot of fun around town, I'll be honest. The pedal engagement range is short, and while the engagement itself isn't grabby at all, the MOI is still super, super low, so it's easy to stall it and/or do burnouts accidentally.

You can't just jump into it and go - it takes some getting used to, but I think you can get used to it. I very rarely stall my cerametallic twin, but I've also owned it 2 years now.

Do one session on a track with it, and you will have absolutely no regrets, though - you cannot understand the difference it makes until you try it. Imagine being able to shift as fast as you can possibly move the lever - no more grinding synchros from trying to shift too quickly, no more high-RPM blockout from moving the lever fast. 200ms shifts are the norm. The revs drop so quickly, you are supposed to apply a small amount of throttle during fast shifts to ensure the engine doesn't decelerate excessively.

The Red Rental has a 10lb Fidanza and an ACT HD, and I think it's hard to shift that car quickly.

Last edited by Savington; 10-18-2011 at 04:46 AM.
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Old 10-22-2011, 03:38 PM   #13
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I have the twin ceramic. I could street it, just not every day.
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Old 10-23-2011, 10:30 AM   #14
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Some of my friends keep telling me "You're going to hate it, its not a street clutch".

"Are you talking to me about streeting the car with the huge ******* numbers on it which I drive on the street as a means to get to the track? lol"
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Old 10-23-2011, 03:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spookyfish View Post
I have the twin ceramic. I could street it, just not every day.
How bad is it in comparison to, say, a 6 puck cerametallic ACT HD on a superlight flywheel?
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Old 10-23-2011, 05:43 PM   #16
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I have been street-driving my 949 twin organic for about two weeks. I find it to be quote easy to drive. I did not really have a problem adapting to the short engagement point. It has not yet become "second nature", but it's really not that bad. I think you have to consider the organic and the ceramic separately -- the ceramic is harder to modulate than the organic (according to 949).

For me, for street driving, the big issue is not the drivability but the increased drive train noise. I think this must vary from car to car: In my case, my particular combination of transmission, exhaust, and gutted interior makes for a RIDICULOUS amount of drive train noise in certain gears/rpm/power levels. Probably all this means is that the clutch is not masking the sounds if impending transmission failure they way the stock clutch was
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Old 10-23-2011, 06:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
How bad is it in comparison to, say, a 6 puck cerametallic ACT HD on a superlight flywheel?
Similar. Less grabby, but engages faster (if that makes sense). Probably a bit harder to drive, but that's only because of the massively reduced weight and MOI. The lightest ACT HD/Fidanza combo is still a 22 or 23lb setup - the heaviest 949 twindisc is like 15lbs.
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Old 10-24-2011, 04:36 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
How bad is it in comparison to, say, a 6 puck cerametallic ACT HD on a superlight flywheel?
I have a 4 or 6 puck unsprung in the MaX5 and the effort with the 949 for sure is heavier but other than that they're both no Cadilac. And with the 949 you tend to stall more often during paddock manoeuvrings.
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Old 10-24-2011, 11:10 AM   #19
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...must..spend bonus check on...student loan...do not order...clutch!!!!
/Shatner
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Old 10-24-2011, 02:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proto View Post
I have been street-driving my 949 twin organic for about two weeks. I find it to be quote easy to drive. I did not really have a problem adapting to the short engagement point. It has not yet become "second nature", but it's really not that bad. I think you have to consider the organic and the ceramic separately -- the ceramic is harder to modulate than the organic (according to 949).

For me, for street driving, the big issue is not the drivability but the increased drive train noise. I think this must vary from car to car: In my case, my particular combination of transmission, exhaust, and gutted interior makes for a RIDICULOUS amount of drive train noise in certain gears/rpm/power levels. Probably all this means is that the clutch is not masking the sounds if impending transmission failure they way the stock clutch was
I went from 1.6l 6 puck spung center disk to a 4 puck unspring with my 7lb 1.6l Fidanza flywheel. With over 300 ft-lbs of torque I kept blowing apart the sprung centers on the clutch disks. The drive train noise went up dramatically when I did this however. It is kind of obnoxious at 3500 to 4000 rpm with light load. When Iím driving on the street I constantly find myself shifting to avoid those RPMís. It also buzzes like crazy on overrun which it didnít do so bad before.
The problem I have in nailing down the exact cause is at the same time I went 4 puck unsprung I also put in energy suspension diff mounts and took the mass damper off the input shaft to the Diff. but based on driving other cars with stiff diff mounts or no mass damper on the pinion I think the added drivetrain noise Iím getting is at least 90% from the unspung center on the clutch disk.
It is my opinion that sprung centers donít do much of anything for saving your transmission from hard shifts or excessive torque and might even make it worse because of the slide hammer like behavior they can have as the springs bottom out but they do cut out a lot of off load drivetrain vibration.

I have no problem street driving a 4 puck act extreem in the lighter weight 1.6l version with a 7 lb flyweel.

Bob
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