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Old 03-29-2015, 08:31 PM   #1
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Default Slower now that I am boosted

So I just finished my first auto x after turboing my 94 miata and while it was fun, it was sad when my sts buddy who I am normally neck and neck with beat me by 5s. While I think 70% of it is that I don't have the skill to handle the additional power, there is a piece of me that thinks maybe I need to throw more money at the car to support the extra power.

Currently I have 15x8 +20 on 205 BFG rivals, 7/6 Tien Flex coilovevrs and a racing beat front sway bar and stock rear sway bar. This worked fine at 100hp but maybe it is making it harder now that I am around 210whp.

If I were to throw money at the car I was thinking of getting 15x9 6uls with 225 Rivals, upgrade the spring rates to 9/6 (or get different suspension), and remove the rear sway bar. I want to stay on street tires and I dont want to cut my fenders. Are these changes drastic enough to make a real difference or is the real issue that I am just not experienced enough yet with the boost in power.

Any input would be greatly appreciated, I want to at least be able to beat ES miatas....

Video of my cruddy runs, maybe some pointers will help. Try not to judge by my first run of the day, my 3rd was my best time and my 4th looked solid until i spun out :(

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Old 03-29-2015, 09:49 PM   #2
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Start with less rear springrate/bar. Also if you have dumb boost control move to a TPSvsRPM boost table via the ecu.

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Old 03-29-2015, 09:53 PM   #3
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Throwing money at the car is almost never the correct solution in these situations
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Old 03-29-2015, 09:59 PM   #4
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**** a whole bunch of the rivals. Pick something else. RS3 is a safe bet, but the RE71R looks to be the new hotness and noticeably faster than the RS3 and ZII*. Who knows if the rival-s will be any good, something something fool me once something something.
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Old 03-29-2015, 10:11 PM   #5
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It's hard to tell fully without some more telemetry like throttle and brake position, but looks like you're mentally a couple of moments behind the car. It's why you keep locking up the tires.

You'll adjust, as usually try to get a faster driver with a similar vehicle in your car and ride along.
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Old 03-30-2015, 09:30 AM   #6
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Ditch the rear sway. Add more front spring. 9/6 on my TEIN was ok. Street tire autox turbo miata is no fun. Corner balance with the driver weight might help the lock up a little.

You'll be ***** footing the throttle even at ~200 whp on a street tire car. It is harder to go fast and you'll get out of shape easier (with any straight section). Been there done that. You'll get faster but it will won't ever be that much faster than a similarly tired car. It would take a lot of work to beat a street 225 shod STR/CSP car due to the extra restraint that must be exhibited with the throttle.
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Old 03-30-2015, 09:43 AM   #7
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To sort of piggy back on what BenR is saying; you are leaving large amounts of time on that course, and that is probably because you are now carrying more speed than you realize between each input section. In other words, you may need to work on your throttle control and trail braking now.

Having an underpowered car is great since you can flog it at 10/10ths all the time and maintain good momentum, but once you overcome the power struggle you need to dial back your driving to accommodate.

I have a similar suspension set up as you, and this last autocross I did I moved the front sway bar to the shortest setting and removed the rear bar. It made the car less "fun" to drive now that it starts to understeer at the limit, but it was the first time I was within 2 seconds of some of the top pro guys. So there is something to say about what is fast, and what "feels" fast.

Don't put anymore money into the car (unless it's tires) and work on honing your diving skill now. Try and make friends with some of the local pro guys and ride along with them, watch their lines. Keep a time spreadsheet on someone that is really consistent in your region and see if you maintain a reasonable difference to them, try and close that gap with every event. Most of all, have fun with the car.
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Old 03-30-2015, 10:21 AM   #8
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Thanks for all the advice, I think you all make great points. There are not to many SSM guys in my region so it is a bit tough but some show up every once in a while. I think I will upgrade the wheels/tires and stop there until I can work on my throttle control. Whenever I had a decent straight I gunned it and it killed my momentum for the upcoming sharp turns. I think proper wheel setup and removing the rear bar will help a bit but I need to work on my control it seems.

If you watch the video, my last run I tried to keep very controlled and I think I was much faster until I lost it on the hard right (which is right after a long straight)
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Old 03-30-2015, 10:38 AM   #9
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I really would think about just the tires. From all the early reports the RE71R is significantly better than the rival at longitudinal acceleration, and it only comes in 205 so your 15x8s are fine. You could always get a set of 15x9s and put some 225 slicks on them, which would be even better.
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Old 03-30-2015, 10:43 AM   #10
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I'm sorry but -- autox without the rear bar sucks. On Flexes you want a front bar on full stiff and stock rear bar.

you just need to learn you car. that camera angle sucks for reviewing. cant hear the car and cant see your inputs. But turboed miatas aren't always the fastest on the autox course - the key is now being smoother in and out of corners.
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Old 03-30-2015, 10:43 AM   #11
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I really would think about just the tires. From all the early reports the RE71R is significantly better than the rival at longitudinal acceleration, and it only comes in 205 so your 15x8s are fine. You could always get a set of 15x9s and put some 225 slicks on them, which would be even better.
I really want to stay away from slicks, is that dumb? I could keep my current setup for the street and go with 15x9 on slicks for auto x. I keep reading slicks will just cover my mistakes and this is only my second year out. On the contrary from what I am reading putting that much power down is just not realistic without slicks.
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Old 03-30-2015, 10:45 AM   #12
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the only time in that video it looks like you have a traction problem is when you're braking like a n00b.
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Old 03-30-2015, 10:50 AM   #13
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Hey, I recognize that course! You can certainly put power down with 15x9s. I was running around 220hp on 15x9s and rivals last season with good success in BSP.

If you're comparing to the STS time from yesterday (same one I'm thinking of) he ran a stupid fast time. Right behind Simmons which was a bit crazy. I ran a 54.3 in ES codriving a friend's car for the first time.

If you want, shoot me a PM and I'd be happy to ride along with you some time and take a look at your setup.
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Old 03-30-2015, 11:17 AM   #14
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Hey, I recognize that course! You can certainly put power down with 15x9s. I was running around 220hp on 15x9s and rivals last season with good success in BSP.

If you're comparing to the STS time from yesterday (same one I'm thinking of) he ran a stupid fast time. Right behind Simmons which was a bit crazy. I ran a 54.3 in ES codriving a friend's car for the first time.

If you want, shoot me a PM and I'd be happy to ride along with you some time and take a look at your setup.
were you at hershey? the sts car was my friend Anthony in a silver NA. Iunno how he was so close to simmons, it was insane. Will you be at the PCA event next week? or the Philly SCCA rust off?
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Old 03-30-2015, 11:19 AM   #15
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the only time in that video it looks like you have a traction problem is when you're braking like a n00b.
That was my first run of the day! and the first time ever running the turbo miata. I was STR all last year. But yes I am a huge n00b anyway. So you think by the video its more 90% me 10% setup?
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Old 03-30-2015, 11:29 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by gr4v3r View Post
were you at hershey? the sts car was my friend Anthony in a silver NA. Iunno how he was so close to simmons, it was insane. Will you be at the PCA event next week? or the Philly SCCA rust off?
Yes I was there in a white miata in ES on Sunday. I was talking to another STS driver who didn't make it and we were both wondering how he got so fast. Definitely impressive and I wouldn't compare against his time.

Next I'm going for is BMR at Maple Grove on the 19th. Trying to focus on getting my car's suspension back together in time for that.
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Old 03-30-2015, 11:42 AM   #17
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Yes I was there in a white miata in ES on Sunday. I was talking to another STS driver who didn't make it and we were both wondering how he got so fast. Definitely impressive and I wouldn't compare against his time.

Next I'm going for is BMR at Maple Grove on the 19th. Trying to focus on getting my car's suspension back together in time for that.
I passed your message along to him so he should be feeling pretty good about himself today haha. Its just crazy how I am always neck and neck with him and we are both like 4-5 secs behind simmons all last year. He had like 6 ride alongs before his runs yesterday so maybe that was a big help. With only 4 runs by the time you learn the course it's too late haha.

I think I am going to be skipping the Susq SCCA runs from now on though. Too many cars, too long of days, and not enough runs. I was so beat after yesterday and I barely drove. Do you ever do the Philly SCCA events? Let me know if you ever want to co drive. I have no experience with suspension feel so it would be good to hear what someone thinks about my setup.
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Old 03-30-2015, 11:42 AM   #18
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Also is there anywhere to see the times?
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Old 03-30-2015, 01:19 PM   #19
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I'm sorry but -- autox without the rear bar sucks. On Flexes you want a front bar on full stiff and stock rear bar.

you just need to learn you car. that camera angle sucks for reviewing. cant hear the car and cant see your inputs. But turboed miatas aren't always the fastest on the autox course - the key is now being smoother in and out of corners.
Sorry I missed this post. Really good advice. I will try adjusting my front bar for the next event also. Now that I had my first trial event I willbe much smoother in my transitions

On another note, is it really slicks or bust now that I have more power? I can get 15x9s but dont know if I should get slicks mounted to use only at events or get a good street tire. I would obviously prefer a street tire for financial purposes and especially since my club has a street tire SSM class but I also want to be competitive.... Tough choices....
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Old 03-30-2015, 01:34 PM   #20
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I passed your message along to him so he should be feeling pretty good about himself today haha. Its just crazy how I am always neck and neck with him and we are both like 4-5 secs behind simmons all last year. He had like 6 ride alongs before his runs yesterday so maybe that was a big help. With only 4 runs by the time you learn the course it's too late haha.

I think I am going to be skipping the Susq SCCA runs from now on though. Too many cars, too long of days, and not enough runs. I was so beat after yesterday and I barely drove. Do you ever do the Philly SCCA events? Let me know if you ever want to co drive. I have no experience with suspension feel so it would be good to hear what someone thinks about my setup.
Yes he should. Was he running the RE71r also?

I got 8 runs in because I rode along with my codriver when he was running so got to see a bit more. I was more focused on helping him improve his times though. Susquehanna's opening and closing events at Hershey are always the busiest. Other events they cap at 100 entrants so its a little more manageable. Still only 4 runs which I would prefer more. I haven't been down to Philly events yet but I may if I have time. I'd be happy to codrive if I do and see if I can help. For the most part I run PHA hill climbs so those take priority over autox in the summer time.

Results will be here but they take a couple days. Check out on tues or weds usually http://www.scca-susq.com/results.php.
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