Supercharger
 

There is a Jackson racing m45 supercharger system for sale right now in the Forum that I am really thinking of picking up. My question is how reliable will this system be on the track. What upgrades will I need to safely track my car at 170-200 whp. This setup already comes with a Air to Air intercooler so that should help alot. Thanks guys

Anybody :( I also emailed gray over at trackdog racing. If I buy this I am planing on doing it tomorrow so I need all the info I can get

No one is answering because it's very easy information to find.

Here, I'll help you.

1) buy supercharger
2) buy MS1 (skip the band aide shit)
3) buy injectors
4) buy full exhaust
5) Install everything
6) tune.

Install MS1 first. Figure that stuff out. Then when your car is ready for the SC do it. I didn't see a wideband in that list. That is a must. Then after you drive around with an SC, figure out you wanted that glowing red thing on your exhaust manifold.

Edit, buy the damn thing if it is such a great deal.

1) buy supercharger
2) buy MS1 (skip the band aide shit) I have a 02 with vvt so I am going hydra with a wideband
3) buy injectors This was on my list as well but I might just go with a fuel pump
4) buy full exhaust If I want more then 160whp I am going to need it
5) Install everything
6) tune. Of course

To be honest I wanted to know if I was going to need a better clutch at my power level. Also if a bigger radiator was needed and if I should do the M tune reroute I saw it needs a different head gasket on my year :facepalm:. I found a good amount of info but a lot of the track guys are running the 949racing setup or the bigger m62 supercharger. So if anybody has seen or ran a jackson racing m45 on the track your input would be great. Thanks

At 200whp I wouldn't worry about a rad or re-route until the car is running. If you street it only, you can wait. If you're going to go off and beat the shit out of it on the track the minute it's off the dyno then do said mods.

I'm a fan of over preparing so I say do the clutch first.

So pretty much the same stuff I would need if I want turbo. I am planing on the FM happy meal for the clutch/flywheel. Then a PWR radiator and use the stock fans I guess.

Basically, yes.

Why do you want an M45? It's very limited in power, especially on a 1.8. IMO, take a few extra months to save the cash and go with a Kraftwerks Rotrex from Emilio if you really want to go super.

I've been doing a ton of reading on those and my new engine build is going to be coupled with one.

To be honest a lot of my plans changed once I started tracking and auto xing the car. I don't feel the need for big power any more so I started to scale back hell I was thinking of just staying NA. BUT I see this guy selling a supercharger setup that should cost about 4k for 1700 shipped lol so its hard to pass that up. I also just got off the phone with Gary from trackdog and he told me I wont need a hydra/stand alone just to run the power card pro that will save me another 1500. I don't know man I priced out a v band turbo track setup I was looking at 8k if not more.

How many KMS on the kit? $1700 is alright for a price if it's low kms.

In all honesty man... stay away from "p-p-p-powercard!". Just get a stand alone. Is MS available for you car year? Don't know much about NB's. But if it is, get a MS. Hydra is overkill for a 200whp supercharger setup.

If you were already expecting to pay $1700+$1500 for a hydra+M45, just go buy the starter Rotrex kit. It's around that price with it's own fuel delivery system. It's not all about big power with those anyways, although you can make big power if you want. They mimic an NA car in power delivery. You should give 949Racing a call before you make your decision. And go read the big Rotrex thread on M.Net.

10k Miles on the kit I was told. I feel you on the stand alone I am looking into this power card right now. Even the 949racing kit comes with a piggyback card so I guess its the norm with a supercharger setup. yeah I might give 949 a ring I hear nothing but good things on there setup plus I bet its not loud as fuck haha

That's one thing I like. It's silent. And you can run the thing with the restrictor at first and then when (and I say when, because it will happen) you get the HP bug, you don't need to sell your tiny M45 and buy something new. Just remove the restrictor, add injectors, intercooler and go to town.

You can either buy the starter kit with the fuel management card or a DIY kit and run your own ECM and IC. It's a bit cheaper as well.

You can get over 180whp from the m45 200 tops so that should be fine. But you are right you are kinda capped

more like ~160 unless you port and rebuilt the hell out of the 45

i already done everything your talking about and more.

buy mp62 tdr kit, buy Adaptronic (hydra sucks), get a spec 2.0 or fm lvl 1 clutch, get a better radiator.

take to the dyno and find out your running ~200rwhp (on powercards) and smile

HMMM well I like the sound of all that. I did some reading on the adaptronic and it looks just as good as the hydra. It also tunes VVT so. Thanks for your input man

:youwish:
Yeah, you'd better get Gary back on the phone, he'll set you straight.

where did you see one over 180 rwhp? most people even with the boost upgrades don't see more than 165rwhp

I was getting my info from a dyno plot on his site. He did tell me the vvt would make 15HP less so that kind of sucks. I would want at least 160

Well it depends what dyno you use for the numbers. My 96 jrsc fyi

Attachment 196995

Thanks for the post man. At that level of horsepower did you find the car fast enough to be worth the boost in power.

M45=waste of time. After you have spent a ton of cash in it to make 180+ hp you could have had a larger blower or a turbo. I had one for three years, totally not enough power for the effort.

Thanks for the input. Even the seller jumped ship and went turbo lol

Even though i have a m45 and like it i agree with you. Starting from scratch the m45 may not be worth it. But if you have one and do mods that would carry over to another setup, like a megasquirt, then i can see spending the extra money on it.

As for the op, the car is a lot of fun at this level. Its quick enough on track days to make the straights a little more fun and low enough power to not get into too much trouble. I have thought about swapping to a turbo and trying to get more power but decided that i probably wouldn't have a license anymore if i did.

Thanks man. Yeah its a tough call I know if I go turbo I am going to end up with AF parts and enough power to bend a rod or hit a tree lol. I think I would be happy with 160whp does anybody know what kind of 1/4 mile or 0-60 that is.

http://www.dragtimes.com/Mazda--Miat...ag-Racing.html

check that site out several setups on there pretty much anything you can think of. It should give you a good baseline.

Thanks looks like a 14-15 second setup

It's customary to quote only rear wheel horsepower, not flywheel horsepower. FYI. :slap:

That is power to the wheels since tcf is set to one. The dyno program for the dynapack is retarded and still says flywheel power.

I agree with others and don't think that the M45 deal would give you enough power.

For comparison, I'm running the C15-60 Rotrex (the small one) in my car and it puts down 190rwhp on a dynojet, but I tune it down to 165 with an insert and timing retard when I'm time trialing. This is with a 2000 engine in my 1993 chassis, TDR intercooler, 9093MSPnP, and RX8 injectors. I did install an oil cooler and coolant reroute along with a PWR radiator to keep the engine happy. On the 190rwhp tune the highest coolant levels that I've seen are 215°F on a 90°F day, and 1450°F EGTs at ~11.0:1 AFRs. IATs peak at around 115°F. It's been on the track 7 times since the supercharger installation. One benefit of the Rotrex is that it does not add a lot of heat to the intake charge, so tuning for power is easier and safer for the engine. Turbos are quite efficient too, put they add more heat since they're in the exhaust stream. If you are going to track the car a lot, I'd recommend the Rotrex, but a turbo would give you more power for a lower price.

The larger C30-74 Rotrex has the capability for much more power (250+rwhp), but I wanted to stay conservative for my class limitations and powertrain component longevity. The C30-74 is the better choice for power, and there is a very complete kit already set up for your car: http://949racing.com/rotrexmiatasupercharger.aspx

At 190rwhp, my car is now faster than my S2000 was on the track, by a few seconds per lap at Homestead Miami Speedway, so it's a lot of fun to drive.

215 F I guess that is good for a FI miata. When I was at new jersey motorsports park my instructor was complaining his spec miata was at 160 F lol it was hot that day 85 maybe even closer to 90

I think 190-200whp is what I will shot for if I go turbo or supercharger. Some times I think it would be easier to get a built head the new 949 racing header and a standalone. This might be easier to track but it wont be cheaper thats for sure haha. Either way I am new to tracking a car and need to learn a lot. Anyway Lots of great info in this post. I need to take a step back and really plan a setup. Thanks again

I think I have seen one M45 making 190ish WHP ever.

My M45 setup makes just shy of 170whp and that's with water-to-air IC, Adaptronic, 460cc RX-7 injectors, 10.5:1 compression, JR headers, 3" cat, 2.5" exhaust from there back.

If I were to do it again I'd go MP62 or a snail.

My M45 is making at least that much and so far it is more than enough to smack all MP62 and turboed Miatas I've met at the local autocrosses over the last few years (and besides California, this is the place with most likely the most active Miata community). And I still keep the AC so they have no excuses ...

I guess something's wrong with my M45 then ... my car should've been dog slow with the lack of intercooler and all that :laugh:

Rotrex

Dyno's talk; bullshit walks. :fawk:

+1

Especially since you track the car, linear power ftw!

I know of two local miatas that make just over 200rwhp with a m45, both have FMIC's and the 8 psi pulley, one is a 96 and the other is an 03. But Im not sure what dyno they used.

:bsflag:

Im not sure if its the 8 or 9.... I really dont know much about JRSC's, but I do know it was under 10. Thats just what they told me. Saw one of car's dyno-sheets and drove the other.

Anyone can fake a dyno sheet. No way in hell any 1.6 or 1.8 would make 200whp on 8 or 9PSI pully. If they did, we would all be running them.

My MP62 makes 167whp @ 6psi and 192crankhp.

Are you sure that dyno plot wasn't crank hp.

I'm making 190rwhp with the small C15-60 Rotrex unit on a 1.8 liter engine out of a 2000. That's at 6-7psi, so I see no reason why 8 or 9 psi wouldn't net at least 10 more rwhp.

Lets see the dyno sheet. That 190 sounds more like crank power at the 6-7 boost level. We need proof to back some of these accusations. The larger rotrex at 5psi on an 01 only makes 157whp according to 949.

You can ask swingdancr about his old car. I don't know the full details except it made a tad over 200.

Definitely not argueing that the m45 pd s/c is better by any means lol.

200 wheel with no intercooler!!!

http://forum.miata.net/vb/member.php?u=4878

oh god what have i started. :giggle:

I'm not accusing anyone :). I am asserting that my car produces 190.15 rear wheel horse power and 152.04 lb-ft.torque as measured towards the end of a tuning session (green line). The second line (red) is from an earlier session, before I tuned timing. The C15-60 Rotrex produced a maximum of 145kPa in my intake manifold according to the logged data on my Megasquirt, which is equal to 6.5psi boost pressure.

You can make decent power with the 45 running overdrive pulleys. We're just finishing up a tune on my '96 with a '99 motor running the 150mm crank overlay and a 62mm nose pulley with 320cc injectors. I just switched from the PowerCard Pro to an AEM F/IC. I'll have final numbers tomorrow, but the last pull which stopped at about 6300 RPM we got peak torque of 156 and peak HP of 175 on a Mustang dyno. We're running AFRs around 11 and should get a bit more power by bringing them up to 12 or so under boost. Having the ability to take out fuel with the AEM is a real advantage when getting drivability right and successfully utilizing bigger injectors. Boost is about 8 psi according to my gauge, about 1 psi less than on the '96 motor because of the better head design. VICS switches over at 5400, but we haven't fiddled with this yet on the dyno.

The original thread was about using a supercharger on the track. I agree that Gary at Track Dog is the man when it comes to SC setups, and his intercooler ensures that you don't have to take out gobs of timing due to heat soak on the track. The beauty of an SC is that the torque curve is really flat from about 3400 RPM on--no lag, it's like having a bigger engine. A bunch of my track buddies have the Moss 62 with PowerCard and I can pull them all on the straights with my overdriven 45, even when I was using the regular PowerCard. Would I like the 62 running overdrive and the AEM? Sure, but that's not keeping me from lowering my lap times right now. My car is plenty fast and I need to be a faster better driver in those places where HP isn't the issue. Horsepower can be a crutch, and until I can turn lap times at Sears Point with the Spec Miata guys while having 50+ HP on them, then I can think about the 62.

I run the m45 with an upgraded pulley. The stock radiator should be ok but that depends on the size of your intercooler core. Mine is relatively small, covers about 50% of the radiator and my temps are fine. I'm also still on my stock clutch but only because I'm waiting till I can afford the clutch I want.

Skip the piggies. I run a MSPNP and I know three other guys who have ran the power card/timing card setup. It tends to work fine for the standard pulley setup but if you try and add a little more boost you could run into problems. With the MS1 you'll have no trouble upgrading injectors, getting your tune exactly right, etc.

As I wasted time reading through this thread, I couldn't stop asking myself, "Has this guy ever tracked a car?"

You have a miata. Suspension, brakes and a roll bar are all you need to have some track day fun. Make the car "track safe" and have a lot of fun driving your car. You don't need alot of power to have a solid miata.

Call gary@tdr back, per my suggestion, tell him I sent you and buy a roll bar, brake upgrades and better suspension.

I have tracked the car a total of 5 times this season. This is also my first year of owning the car. Beside those 5 track events I have 2 more left for the season and about 13 auto x events on the car.

It's nice to keep reading all these post I am finding them helpful but I already said I am leaving the power stock and upgrading to a faster car in a few years.

O and BTW not to be a dick okay maybe a little but if you look at my build thread in my sig you would see I have a roll bar and door bars. My car is setup fine for the track.

190whp with 5psi. Click here and here Super impressive for a M45, actually impressive for anything at 5psi. Granted it was very modified.

Sure it can be done. I was on the edge of 170whp with my old sebring setup and it was DAMN fast at an autocross. However, the idea of a turbo is nice but, different strokes for different folks.

You'd be better off with a MSM turbo/manifold/dp....

I've had 2 Miatas (a 96 and a 99) that were s/c'ed with FMIC, crank overlay and 62mm pulleys with decent tuning and while they were fun, I'd take my GF's MSM over them in terms of power delivery.

I am just going to stay stock and focus on my driving. Its always nice to see the look on peoples faces when I tell them my car is stock(power) ;)