Suspension Choice: GC/Koni vs. Budget Oriented Coilovers(<$1100) - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Race Prep Miata race-only chat.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-31-2012, 12:20 PM   #1
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 491
Total Cats: 39
Default Suspension Choice: GC/Koni vs. Budget Oriented Coilovers(<$1100)

Now that the new motor is in and the rest of the car has finally seen attention it needs I wanted to look at optimizing my suspension a bit more. I've been rocking Koni Yellow SA & First Gen Flyin' Miata Springs along with Eibach Spec F&R sways since I bought the car back in 2010(These items were installed by the PO). Until last year I felt the set up had been adequate for autocrossing & HPDE events. However, when I had door bars welded into the car I noticed a change.


This is also an older picture, I've since upgraded to 15x8 Konig's with 225/45/15 RS-3s.

The suspension which once felt adequate is now softer due to the increased chassis rigidity. The big question moving forward is what is the most cost effective solution for improving my suspension. I am also keeping in mind later next year I'll be adding the 949Racing front air dam & matched Super Miata wing.

The three idea's that I have had thus far;

1: Flying Miata V-Maxx XXtreme coilovers - Track Pack.
These coilovers seem to have done well enough on their targa cars and FM customer service is top notch. However, long term reliability of this item is up in the air. How much am I sacrificing with these compared to used Flex coilovers?

2: Used Flex, Stance, etc.
Save a little money going used and get a higher dollar item for less. The caveat I see to this is being at the mercy of the forums and never knowing what kind of abuse they've seen.

3: GC Coilover Sleeves for my existing Konis.
I see this as my cost effective solution. Another added benefit is getting the exact rates I want. I also have read into the limitations of my Konis and I might want to re-valve my front shocks which adds $$$. Another downside these shocks are getting on the older side(8+ years old).


Does anyone have experience with these set ups or have a comprable solution?
Attached Thumbnails
Suspension Choice: GC/Koni vs. Budget Oriented Coilovers(&lt;00)-sblbhl.jpg  
Lincoln Logs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 12:25 PM   #2
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,362
Total Cats: 1,323
Default

You have two options:

1. Save more money and buy XIDAs
2. Buy something used so when you inevitably sell it and buy XIDAs, you don't end up losing too much money
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 12:29 PM   #3
Elite Member
iTrader: (10)
 
soviet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 3,517
Total Cats: 257
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
You have two options:

1. Save more money and buy XIDAs
2. Buy something used so when you inevitably sell it and buy XIDAs, you don't end up losing too much money
Pretty much this. I had Koni + GC sleeves that I bought new. Took a good $500 hit when I sold them used a year later.
soviet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 12:31 PM   #4
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
albertogti117's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Houston, Tx
Posts: 167
Total Cats: 4
Default

IIRC Koni re-valves are pretty pricey. You might be better off going with a set of Koni Race + GC coilovers if you want to go that route. You could always buy a set of used Bilstein's and get those re-valved from Stewart or FCM (If they still do it).
albertogti117 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 12:31 PM   #5
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Ryan_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 2,578
Total Cats: 155
Default

One cheap solution that you should be able to sell for about how much you put into them would be to buy the MSM bilstein's that 18psi has for sale and then add sleeves, perches, and new springs. You should be able to do all this for roughly $600 and then you can save for xida's if you want the absolute best suspension. Many people on this forum including hustler will attest to how the MSM bilsteins are some of the best if not the best shocks short of xidas. Use 450/300 F/R spring rates unless you plan to revalve them.
Ryan_G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 02:28 PM   #6
Junior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bay Area- East Bay
Posts: 290
Total Cats: 1
Default

Either save for the xida,afco,fcm or tein flex. Or keep searching for good deals on used quality set ups. Sell that cusco bar set up and fund your suspension.
brainzata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2012, 02:31 PM   #7
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

Do it once do it right, Xida/FCM elite or better. Remember those Penskes are only a couple hundred more than the xidas similarly equipped.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 04:01 AM   #8
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,863
Total Cats: 485
Default

To those suggesting a $1800 coilover to someone who is asking for something with a budget ceiling of $1100, I ask "really?" That's more than 50% more than his budget.

We all know how good the XIDAs and FCMs are, but "XIDA or bust" isn't really helpful to someone who doesn't expect to have close to $2k to throw on a coilover. Obviously, we'd all love to run those, but we can't all afford to. Hell, I'm on DGR coilovers. Made in Taiwanlandkong. But that's what I could afford (traded my old spring/shock combo + cash for them) - you can still be pretty fast on coilovers that aren't the hot poop.

Suggestions within his budget would be a lot more helpful.

Personally, I think that the best way a person could spend less than $1k for something new is the FM VMAXX 'track' coilover - stiff enough spring rates for what the OP is planning, and shock valving that is just OK but is at least intended for those rates. But, used Flex are probably the best bang for the buck, it just comes down to patience to find a set for sale.

-Ryan
ThePass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 04:16 AM   #9
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 491
Total Cats: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
You have two options:

1. Save more money and buy XIDAs
2. Buy something used so when you inevitably sell it and buy XIDAs, you don't end up losing too much money
Alas I wish this were much more obtainable with my budget currently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soviet View Post
Pretty much this. I had Koni + GC sleeves that I bought new. Took a good $500 hit when I sold them used a year later.
Keep in mind I did not pay for the current suspension, the Koni + FM Springs came with the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by albertogti117 View Post
IIRC Koni re-valves are pretty pricey. You might be better off going with a set of Koni Race + GC coilovers if you want to go that route. You could always buy a set of used Bilstein's and get those re-valved from Stewart or FCM (If they still do it).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_G View Post
One cheap solution that you should be able to sell for about how much you put into them would be to buy the MSM bilstein's that 18psi has for sale and then add sleeves, perches, and new springs. You should be able to do all this for roughly $600 and then you can save for xida's if you want the absolute best suspension. Many people on this forum including hustler will attest to how the MSM bilsteins are some of the best if not the best shocks short of xidas. Use 450/300 F/R spring rates unless you plan to revalve them.
I have to ask the question are the MSM Bilstein's really that much better than my adjustable Konis? From what I understand the Konis should be able to handle the 450/300 spring set up as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainzata View Post
Either save for the xida,afco,fcm or tein flex. Or keep searching for good deals on used quality set ups. Sell that cusco bar set up and fund your suspension.
No selling the rollbar set up, welded in. :-) Used flex would be nice but it's a waiting game to get them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Do it once do it right, Xida/FCM elite or better. Remember those Penskes are only a couple hundred more than the xidas similarly equipped.
Again slightly out of budget.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
To those suggesting a $1800 coilover to someone who is asking for something with a budget ceiling of $1100, I ask "really?" That's more than 50% more than his budget.

We all know how good the XIDAs and FCMs are, but "XIDA or bust" isn't really helpful to someone who doesn't expect to have close to $2k to throw on a coilover. Obviously, we'd all love to run those, but we can't all afford to. Hell, I'm on DGR coilovers. Made in Taiwanlandkong. But that's what I could afford (traded my old spring/shock combo + cash for them) - you can still be pretty fast on coilovers that aren't the hot poop.

Suggestions within his budget would be a lot more helpful.

Personally, I think that the best way a person could spend less than $1k for something new is the FM VMAXX 'track' coilover - stiff enough spring rates for what the OP is planning, and shock valving that is just OK but is at least intended for those rates. But, used Flex are probably the best bang for the buck, it just comes down to patience to find a set for sale.

-Ryan
I've been tempted to put my spring/shock combo up for trade on cr.net for giggles and see what happens. I'd like to keep this on the lower end of the $$$ spectrum.
Lincoln Logs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 04:30 AM   #10
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,362
Total Cats: 1,323
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
To those suggesting a $1800 coilover to someone who is asking for something with a budget ceiling of $1100, I ask "really?" That's more than 50% more than his budget.
Really. If you actually care about the car's performance, but you don't have $2k to drop on good shocks, buy used and upgrade to good shocks later on when you have the money. If you don't care about the car's performance, then it doesn't really matter what you buy.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 04:48 AM   #11
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,863
Total Cats: 485
Default

I don't know man, I think there is a middle ground. Coilovers that cost as much as some miatas aren't the answer for everyone. Yeah, your car will always be capable of a couple seconds more at the track if you spent an extra $1k, but there are a lot of people whose priorities are more of a mix between budget, performance and fun factor.

I'd love to find a way to make XIDAs or FCMs happen on my car eventually, so I agree as well that those are the answer when you decide you want a certain amount of performance from the car...

But I'm playing devil's advocate here because I spent 2 years on AGXs, 4 years on Koni Yellows, and now I'm on a Taiwan-built coilover, and guess what, I've loved racing the car the entire time. My lap times would be faster on baller coilovers, but I couldn't afford those, and I'm having just as much fun competing and racing anyways.

I definitely agree with the buy used advice though - best way to get more for your $$, on anything across the board other than probably tires and brake pads haha

-Ryan
ThePass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 05:02 AM   #12
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,362
Total Cats: 1,323
Default

Nothing I can say will be as convincing as a test drive in a car that's got XIDAs underneath it. They are just that good. If you don't have the budget for them, find the budget. If you can't afford them, buy used and save more money. There is nothing that is even half as good, even for half the money.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 05:07 AM   #13
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,863
Total Cats: 485
Default

I definitely will have to give you that - my opinion is only half-formed because I don't have the perspective of someone who has experience with the full range of coilovers, my own experience has been one of trying to make the most of what I do have.

I have already talked a bit with Shaikh about moving on to something from him, and I believe he's going to be at the Auto Club MC so I might get to discuss that with him more - I've at least ridden in cars with his stuff on them, and I know they are great, but as far as XIDAs go, I have zero experience.

-Ryan
ThePass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 08:51 AM   #14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 111
Total Cats: 8
Default

I believe Savington saying they are that xidas are great, but people saying "find the money" isnt really helpful.
Im in a similar position to the OP (building on a budget) and it would be nice to have the best of the best, but its not practical. People say similar stuff about OS Giken diffs. Trying to find any information about diffs other than "spend double your budget and buy a giken or fail at life" is a struggle.
Maybe someone with experience with multiple setups can list the benifits of each (on the track and the street) and order them so people like the OP can decide what best suits them?
Vilko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 09:14 AM   #15
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Buy 18psi's MSM dampers, ebay perches, Swift springs, ???, profit.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 10:04 AM   #16
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,860
Total Cats: 1,788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainzata View Post
Either save for the xida,afco,fcm or tein flex. Or keep searching for good deals on used quality set ups. Sell that cusco bar set up and fund your suspension.
I have Flex and still want Xida.
Braineack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 10:09 AM   #17
Elite Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Ryan_G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 2,578
Total Cats: 155
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Buy 18psi's MSM dampers, ebay perches, Swift springs, ???, profit.
That is twice now this advice has been given. It will be the cheapest route for a very good result.
Ryan_G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 10:10 AM   #18
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,185
Total Cats: 2,582
Default

I want 18psi's bilsteins
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 10:20 AM   #19
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
I have Flex and still want Xida.
I have 5100s and still want dat Xida.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2012, 10:54 AM   #20
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 9,091
Total Cats: 90
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I have 5100s and still want dat Xida.
Wait, you have AST 5100s? So you have xidas without the xida sticker on them?
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 58 Today 10:04 PM
3rd Time's a Charm...hopefully. zephyrusaurai Meet and Greet 2 09-28-2015 11:59 PM
WTB: Megan EZ street coilovers Rhidell WTB 1 09-26-2015 05:27 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:44 PM.