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Old 08-10-2011, 02:01 PM   #1
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Default Suspension Considerations - ITE/TTA car

I'm building my 1991 for dual TTA/ITE use and have a suspension question.

I picked up some Koni Race dampers and also some Swift 750/400 springs.

I need to buy a coil over sleeve, and my car currently has the NA tophats. I would prefer not to go to an NB subframe.

What would you guys recommend as must-haves? top hats, offset delrin, etc. I will be running 225/45s on 9" and have rolled fenders. Also, do ebay coilover sleeves suffice? Looking for some insight.

Thanks in advance...
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Old 08-10-2011, 02:11 PM   #2
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800/500 Xidas are a must-have. Seriously, sell your 8041s and buy a set. My car was absolutely **** scary to drive on certain tracks at 300+whp with those shocks.
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Old 08-10-2011, 03:59 PM   #3
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I know I'm inferior to the Xidas at this point. My goal is to get out with the Konis and go with a better damper once I've got all the other systems in the car fully sorted.

What do you recommend for top hats, also, are the delrin offset control arm bushes a must have? Before I get my alignments done, I want to make sure my hardware is capable.
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Old 08-10-2011, 04:12 PM   #4
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I ran NA hats with 8041s. Never felt like I had an issue with bump travel, but the droop travel was pathetic. I don't run delrin offsets in any of our cars, at 4.0/4.25 pinch welds I can hit my desired alignment numbers without any problems.
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Old 08-10-2011, 06:44 PM   #5
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You have any baseline alignment recommendations for my setup? I've read countless threads on setups, but figured I'd ask you since it seems like you ran the exact setup at some point in time.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:30 PM   #6
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For tta, presumably you are looking at 250+whp. Start at 3.0F, 2.5R, 0.6deg rear toe in, 3.5 caster, and adjust based on tire temps.
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:00 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post

For tta, presumably you are looking at 250+whp. Start at 3.0F, 2.5R, 0.6deg rear toe in, 3.5 caster, and adjust based on tire temps.
I'm reguired to run less than 228whp at 2420lb race weight.

Now if you're in a 3200lb E46 M3 you can run 285 A6s with every mod in the books at 340whp with room to spare.


Actually I forgot, Greg Greenbaum will not base-class a Miata in TTA. So you can run less than 215whp at my weight and run TTB or run 216whp and TTS.
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:21 PM   #8
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Do you know why he won't base at TTA? I thought I've seen a number of Miatas in the class.

I was planning a low boost tune around the power/weight limit of TTA.
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:32 PM   #9
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Savington, did you run a 3071 at some point? I've got a WAY oversized turbo that came with my car and am thinking about going with a 2871 or 3071. I have a built 1.7.
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Do you know why he won't base at TTA? I thought I've seen a number of Miatas in the class.

I was planning a low boost tune around the power/weight limit of TTA.
Read some of his posts on the Nasa forum and you'll start to get an idea why he makes up random rules and enforces them at his discretion.
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Old 08-11-2011, 06:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
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Do you know why he won't base at TTA? I thought I've seen a number of Miatas in the class.

I was planning a low boost tune around the power/weight limit of TTA.
After running TTB (dyno reclass) last year, I added 20hp and 15tq, in addition todropping about 30lbs. Imagine my shock and awe when my 2011 reclass came back at TTA* I was pissed to say the least.

Lengthy email discussion back and forth with GG to figure out why the *** pounding. I won't post his emails, but here's the cliffs:

1.) All miatas (except 90-93, iirc) incurred a weight penalty for 2011 because someone kicked *** at Nats in a turbo miata. I searched all regions looking for dominant miatas and found nothing (except dominant bmw's).

2.) Back and forth "negoitatons" regarding pwr/wt options, were not good. When asked what would it take to fall into TTA with no stars, I was told that "small tire cars cannot be based straight TTA" because of base tire size and credits for running under base. The fact I was running 275's (over base) did not matter..

3.) Now, I have 2 choices. Run midpack TTA (at best) or nueter my car.

So, with just basic coilovers, frt. sway, oem fr. lip and 949 wing, when I slap on 275 A6's I'm suddenly in TTS. Yay!

This is why you see TTA miatas. They are likely TTB** and points put them into TTA.

BTW, I have your shock/spring combo w/GC on my 1.6 na car. Works great, but like mentioned, no droop and likely a handfull at high hp. Smooth tracks fine, but bumpy ones.. ymmv
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Old 08-11-2011, 09:36 AM   #12
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Joe Ippiloe posted a 1:36.9 at Road Atlanta this weekend in a TTB car and a 2:11 at VIR at the UTCC - with a 255fwhp 4door sentra with a VQ35 v6 transplant, splitter and airdam, wing, hoosiers - that's so fucked up...

When the dough comes in, I planned on going with the 800/500 Xida setup - delete the RB rear sway? Probably - or at least go with a softer one.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Joe Ippiloe posted a 1:36.9 at Road Atlanta this weekend in a TTB car and a 2:11 at VIR at the UTCC - with a 255fwhp 4door sentra with a VQ35 v6 transplant, splitter and airdam, wing, hoosiers - that's so fucked up...
Yeah, NASA is a joke for classing. I like how they expect me to run 232whp on 225 Nittos and be in the same class as 400whp C5Z's, with Pfadt shocks, and 285/305 R6's.
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Old 08-11-2011, 02:58 PM   #14
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LOL, that is so fucked up.
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Old 08-13-2011, 09:02 AM   #15
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Joe's car is pretty heavy, if I remember right. 2:11s at VIR in TTB is not uncommon. Hell, the TTC record is 2:11.x.

For sure, NASA/GG classing is far from perfect. But the system also can never allow all cars to be equally competitive in all classes. You pick your own poison. If the car is competitive in TTB at a lower power level, and not competitive in TTA at a higher power level, just run B. Or drop levels way down and run TTE, where the car can practically be an overdog.

On the note of stupid rules though, I'm not sure why there's that wonderful little "*" for all turbo cars. Why would the dyno reclass not account for that?
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:06 PM   #16
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Sav, what bump stops did you run with the Koni Race? Need to make a decision on what I'm going to assemble them with.
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:51 PM   #17
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I ran the bumps that came with the shock.
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Old 08-14-2011, 03:42 PM   #18
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The way our classing works is by engine size. SP1-SP4. Any FI get's a modifier of 1.7 which is why I run SP3 with a 1.6L car (2900cc-4000cc). Then you get a long list of allowable modifications and another list of optional modifications and each is worth a certain amount of points. Everyone gets 15 points to play with. Safety things like roll bars/fire ext. minus points so you essentially get 18 points to play with. I am maxxed out. Wether you are in SP1 or SP4. No HP classing.
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:03 PM   #19
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we're not getting everything out of our cars though. we'd be competitive in tta, atleast in our Tx. region. competitive meaning mid-pack or better, not easily in the top 3. we just need more track time, and somewhat stable setups. (last year, i started with new coilovers, new tires, new aero) it takes a while to not only get a car dialed-in, but to get your driving to the point that you are making use of those changes. let's take a quick look at one TxMC guy's fastest run at tws 2.9 ccw. power 210-215whp, comp. weight approx. 2350. base should be ttc** or at most ttb*. with apr wing, 225 rs3's and coilovers, etc.. he would be mid to high points in ttb. he's got alot of laps there and has ran a best of 1:56.xx which would be ttb record, or .2-3 tenths behind the tta record c5z. going clockwise i think i could get within a second of the tta class record (same c5z06) with my ttc** classed miata. i'm about 2pts. shy of tta, but have been running tta all year anyway because i might be a few pounds under my classed weight and didn't want people thinking i'm a cheater. and both our cars are really far from the tta power/weight limit. hell we're only close to ttb p/w limit. although i don't really care about tt this year, i'm just trying to go as fast as i can and fun with TxMC.
i'm not trying to stick up for greg g. he is a d-bag, rude, and royally f^cks people with some calls, but he's not that far off sometimes either.

Last edited by spoolin2bars; 08-14-2011 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:23 PM   #20
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I just noticed your sales thread on the Konis you sold. If I can get about 1100 for mine, I'll pull the trigger on some Xida CSs. We'll see what happens.
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