Tires-What are you using, what have you used?
05-16-2012, 05:18 PM
#101
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Join Date: Dec 2009
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I've been cautious about getting r1 takeoffs cuz I don know how well they take heat cycles.
Ultimate time for a tire is not the greatest priority (to a certain extent) just wanting a tire that is faster than nt-01s and not the price of Hoosiers that's why the bfg is an option I'm considering. Just wondering in about more or less than 90 degree track/surface temps how the s or the r1 would compare in heat, durability, and time.
Ultimate time for a tire is not the greatest priority (to a certain extent) just wanting a tire that is faster than nt-01s and not the price of Hoosiers that's why the bfg is an option I'm considering. Just wondering in about more or less than 90 degree track/surface temps how the s or the r1 would compare in heat, durability, and time.
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05-17-2012, 10:54 AM
#102
We run a couple S2000s on the R1 and R1-S, unfortunately I haven't driven them so everything I know about the BFGs on the S2000 is heresay. Either way, on our S2000s (which are probably a much better comparison to your car) the R1-S would "wear out" before it would heat cycle out. That is, we would physically use up the rubber in about 6 heat cycles? This is at the runoffs and at other national level, very competitive SCCA racing though, so we don't run tires if they drop off even a little bit. By "use up the rubber" I mean we would start to see some minor wear on the tires and then stop using them. I think a HPDE / track day guy would get 2-3x the life out of the tire because said person would be more tolerant of the tire dropping off a tiny bit. We're fighting for every 0.1s so we are running stickers when it counts.
We use the regular R1 for longer races and endurance races, and we've had very good luck with the life of the tires. The regular R1 will heat cycle out before it rubbers out, at least on the S2000.
If I were you I wouldn't be too worried about using regular R1 take offs, because they take heat cycles well and the wear very well also.
We use the regular R1 for longer races and endurance races, and we've had very good luck with the life of the tires. The regular R1 will heat cycle out before it rubbers out, at least on the S2000.
If I were you I wouldn't be too worried about using regular R1 take offs, because they take heat cycles well and the wear very well also.
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05-31-2012, 08:39 PM
#103
I recently participated in a auto-x the Memorial Weekend. My car had no suspension mods but I did have a set of brand-new Dunlop Direzza Star Specs. I am very impressed with the grip of the tires. I could not get the car to power oversteer like I could with the previous tires. It's like driving a totally new car.
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Somebody has been doing too much reading on forums and not enough driving the car competitively.
06-06-2012, 03:10 PM
#111
Not sure why you're knocking the forums. There are quite a few people here and in other forums with plenty of competitive experience and they'll tell you the same thing. There's no way putting ridiculously wider and heavier wheels and tires will make an underpowered car like a Miata faster at races like autocross. If that were the case then Miata racers would be driving around on 18x11" rims...
Case in point:
http://www.nerocam.com/SCC_TAP.asp
They shaved 0.5s 0-60 and 0.3s on the 1/4 just by swapping the bigger and wider 19" wheels to the stock 15". Like I said... Wider tires ≠ faster. Not in all cases. That's all I'm saying.
Case in point:
http://www.nerocam.com/SCC_TAP.asp
They shaved 0.5s 0-60 and 0.3s on the 1/4 just by swapping the bigger and wider 19" wheels to the stock 15". Like I said... Wider tires ≠ faster. Not in all cases. That's all I'm saying.
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06-06-2012, 03:32 PM
#112
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 131
Total Cats: 3
Not sure why you're knocking the forums. There are quite a few people here and in other forums with plenty of competitive experience and they'll tell you the same thing. There's no way putting ridiculously wider and heavier wheels and tires will make an underpowered car like a Miata faster at races like autocross. If that were the case then Miata racers would be driving around on 18x11" rims...
Case in point:
http://www.nerocam.com/SCC_TAP.asp
They shaved 0.5s 0-60 and 0.3s on the 1/4 just by swapping the bigger and wider 19" wheels to the stock 15". Like I said... Wider tires ≠ faster. Not in all cases. That's all I'm saying.
Case in point:
http://www.nerocam.com/SCC_TAP.asp
They shaved 0.5s 0-60 and 0.3s on the 1/4 just by swapping the bigger and wider 19" wheels to the stock 15". Like I said... Wider tires ≠ faster. Not in all cases. That's all I'm saying.
I have 13 years of autocross experience, and a degree in mechanical engineering. I certainly don't know everything. If I did, I wouldn't have much reason to be here. I said nothing about bigger wheel diameters. It seems unlikely there will ever be a tire of appropriate rolling diameter and compound to fit an 18x11, but if there were, you can bet people would try it. People tried 255-40-13 A6's and they were better than 225-45-13's. Then they tried the 275-35-15, and it was even better. On Miata's with near stock power levels. At autocross.
As far as your cited evidence, that 1/3rd second they gained at a drag strip is both well within human error on launch, and easily attributable to just the gearing improvement they made. Even if the gain was 100% attributable to weight loss, stickier tires don't have to add any weight, and usually beat the heck out of something lighter with less stick. Give me a 275-35-15 hoosier A6 on a roll formed boat anchor heavy diamond racing wheel in 15x10 over my 8.8 lb panasport 13x8.5 wheels with 225-45-13 A6's any day at a venue that involves corners. I've very happy with the fact that the panasports are so light because it makes changing tires a little easier on my back. That advantage dwarfs any advantage measured by timing.
Don't confuse marketing claims about how unsprung weight is important to ride quality (a truth, but often overblown) with what is faster when timing is involved.
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06-06-2012, 03:39 PM
#113
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 131
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I think I'm well into troll feeding territory, but I scrolled down that link gtlee77 posted and found this gem of scientifically rigorous testing and analysis/conclusions:
Were this a normal project car, we would dyno test each of these modifications, but dyno testing would make this test run well into the evening, and as you know, the "Dukes of Hazzard" comes on at 8 p.m.
Fearing our increased power might turn our Firestones to smoke, we air them down to 25 psi to increase the size of the contact patch for better launches. Even with the giant contact patches, our 60-foot time increases by 0.1 seconds, but the added power and reduced aerodynamic drag from a last-minute removal of the windshield wipers knock another 0.3 seconds from our e.t.
Fearing our increased power might turn our Firestones to smoke, we air them down to 25 psi to increase the size of the contact patch for better launches. Even with the giant contact patches, our 60-foot time increases by 0.1 seconds, but the added power and reduced aerodynamic drag from a last-minute removal of the windshield wipers knock another 0.3 seconds from our e.t.
Last edited by Rocwandrer; 06-06-2012 at 03:50 PM.
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06-06-2012, 03:45 PM
#114
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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A friend if mine buys his tires in sets of 6 for DE's and rotates them out-- says he gets more life/value out of a set of 6 tires than 4 or 8. Obviously this isnt something you would do for an actual race, but does anyone think there is merit to this for just DE's?
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06-19-2012, 09:27 AM
#117
I run RS3's. They great when its sunny and over 75*F or over 65*F and you have a co-driver. Terrible racing in the rain, impossible to get hot if its cold out. But near r-comp levels of grip when up to temp, just can get away with the silly amount of slip angle you can with r-comps. You can't over drive them. The more you treat them like the ugly red headed stepchild the faster they are. I try to over drive them to heat them up and even without getting them hot it makes them faster. Of course this is auto-x and not on the track. The 2.5* of camber I have on all 4 corners is just about perfect based on the ol' calibrated hand pyrometer, though with a softer suspension I would recommend running more. 34-35 psi is where they like to be.
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06-19-2012, 05:28 PM
#118
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Join Date: May 2012
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I run RS3's. They great when its sunny and over 75*F or over 65*F and you have a co-driver. Terrible racing in the rain, impossible to get hot if its cold out. But near r-comp levels of grip when up to temp, just can get away with the silly amount of slip angle you can with r-comps. You can't over drive them. The more you treat them like the ugly red headed stepchild the faster they are. I try to over drive them to heat them up and even without getting them hot it makes them faster. Of course this is auto-x and not on the track. The 2.5* of camber I have on all 4 corners is just about perfect based on the ol' calibrated hand pyrometer, though with a softer suspension I would recommend running more. 34-35 psi is where they like to be.
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