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Old 01-13-2015, 11:32 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
the norm here seems to be turbo before, then remove.
I went that route.
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Old 01-13-2015, 12:18 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by BARMY View Post
Just my 2c based on what I did wrong (and still do wrong) ..........
Change all fluids.
Check pads and tyres and all other safety items.
In the beginning of learning to drive on a track that's all you need. Road tyres will go off as they get hot so you'll learn to drift and to control understeer and oversteer. Standard brakes won't slow you down much so you'll need to concentrate on lines and retaining speed.
If you want to spend more, consider more track time, some tuition, and maybe a rollbar.
Since starting with track days in 2007, I have felt that a beginner shouldn't be standing the car on its nose into the corner anyway. Brake earlier and less than 100% and concentrate on turning in at the right place at the right speed.

Braking is about the last place to lower track time anyway. I would put corner exit and mid-corner ahead of it, with even getting off the brakes properly more important too (Jackie Stewart mode on/off).

- Wayne
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Old 01-17-2015, 11:20 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by cyotani View Post
Daily driver + turbo + track ... (you can only choose two)
This. I'm learning that the hard way. All 3 means that you end up with only 1: Turbo. It isn't prepped enough for the track, and it's already too tiring to DD.

This is assuming that you do something other than take grandma for a sunday cruise when you are on the track.


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Originally Posted by robertcope View Post
It's unlikely that someone at the track for their first time will need XP10s. But I could be wrong.
My first track event was XP10 front, XP8 rear, and I hit fade on my 6th session. NJMP Lightning, MSM w/ 177whp, 360tw tires, stock suspension (at the time). The MSM's higher weight is likely a factor there as well of course, but I was also signed off for promotion to Intermediate that same session. Agreed, it's unlikely, but yes, it can happen. The interwebs are a very poor medium to judge how fast someone may or may not be.

XP8, 10, and 12 all have a very similar lower temp threshhold: 200-250F. Given their excellent modulation and feel, I'd have no problem recommending XP10 or 12s to beginners, since it won't hurt them with a too-high lower temp threshhold and they have tons of room to grow without replacing pads that aren't worn yet.

That being said, if he ends up doing his first day without a turbo, this matters even less.
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Old 01-17-2015, 10:29 PM   #24
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Your problem with XP8's was power + weight. He should be fine with XP8's on stock power, I tracked fir years on mine with no issues at a track known to cook brakes. I dailyed them as well.

If he chooses to go with xp10 or xp12 that should be ok as well.

Just make SURE they are bedded properly on fresh rotors.

It looks like OP has already made up his mind but definitely wait to turbo until after you are cleared for intermediate solo. Autocross is good for learning limits and how to handle loss of traction, at slower than track speeds.
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Old 01-20-2015, 02:09 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by yenadar View Post
This. I'm learning that the hard way. All 3 means that you end up with only 1: Turbo. It isn't prepped enough for the track, and it's already too tiring to DD.

This is assuming that you do something other than take grandma for a sunday cruise when you are on the track.




My first track event was XP10 front, XP8 rear, and I hit fade on my 6th session. NJMP Lightning, MSM w/ 177whp, 360tw tires, stock suspension (at the time). The MSM's higher weight is likely a factor there as well of course, but I was also signed off for promotion to Intermediate that same session. Agreed, it's unlikely, but yes, it can happen. The interwebs are a very poor medium to judge how fast someone may or may not be.

XP8, 10, and 12 all have a very similar lower temp threshhold: 200-250F. Given their excellent modulation and feel, I'd have no problem recommending XP10 or 12s to beginners, since it won't hurt them with a too-high lower temp threshhold and they have tons of room to grow without replacing pads that aren't worn yet.

That being said, if he ends up doing his first day without a turbo, this matters even less.
Did the Carbotechs cause the fade or your brake fluid? I'm intermediate level and run Castrol SRF fluid with XP8s and have never experienced fade. My car isn't a daily but it does get driven on the street (even in very cold weather occasionally) and I leave the XP8s on all the time now.

As far as turbo goes, I'd wait. Not so much because of the extra power but because of all the other problems that will crop up. Overheating being number one. Possible knock once the engine is heat soaked is another. Tune is off. Most of last summer I was having one issue or another after a Rotrex install. It just takes $ and time to sort it all out.

There are so many things that will help you go faster before a turbo. Get a harness and race seat, great suspension and really good tires. And of course number one is seat time with instruction. Can't have much seat time with a car that is overheating. I'll bet you don't have a real water temp gauge. Without it you won't know your engine is running hot until it's REALLY getting hot

Last edited by tomiboy; 01-20-2015 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:33 PM   #26
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If you are fading XP10s on "360tw" tires, you have other issues.
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:50 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalardan View Post
Here's my input! Track it without the turbo, with the stock ECU.

Because you'll do your tuning yourself and you're beginning with tuning too, don't risk blowing up your engine. Simply change brake oil with track ready oil, brake pads with track ready pads and go as is. You'll have plenty of fun! I had
this^
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Old 01-20-2015, 09:03 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by tomiboy View Post
Did the Carbotechs cause the fade or your brake fluid? I'm intermediate level and run Castrol SRF fluid with XP8s and have never experienced fade. My car isn't a daily but it does get driven on the street (even in very cold weather occasionally) and I leave the XP8s on all the time now.
It was fade. Fluid was brand new for the event, flushed all 4 corners, rotors were new, pads were new. Pedal didn't get mushy, just applying the brakes suddenly no longer slowed the car as much as it did the last turn, and I backed off a lap and I would have normal braking restored. And I could repeat it. I hit fade on them even faster on my 2nd event, upped to XP12 front 10 rear for the 3rd and haven't seen fade since.

As noted in my post though, the higher weight of the MSM (plus an instructor) likely contributed.

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Originally Posted by Seefo View Post
If you are fading XP10s on "360tw" tires, you have other issues.
2,490lbs + driver + instructor?
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Old 01-20-2015, 11:04 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Mazduh View Post
Gah! I was going to be at gridlife but sadly it's the same weekend my best friend is getting married. I went last year and it was a lot of fun. I plan on attending the Gridlife at autobahn later on, but I'm gonna miss the big first event. :(
Try to get in for Honda Meet (July 17th-19th). It hasn't gone on sale yet but it will sell out within 24 hours when it does.
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