Whats better? Cast manifold inconel or welded steel vband - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 04-13-2011, 11:04 AM   #21
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Quote:
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Sav - going to do one track day with the setup as-is and I suspect after it I'll be wanting to upgrade to your Inconel stuff.
Why waste expensive track time on something you know will fail?
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My turbo uses 8mm studs though. Can any old machine shop drill and tap the manifold for the larger 10mm stud as well as drill out the holes in the turbo, or is that a specialty job?
Maybe you gayz should consider doing bolts, EDM drilled for Inconel safety wire.
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Old 04-13-2011, 11:07 AM   #22
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It makes me lol that we're back on this topic again. I ran into an "engineer" with a turbo 240 that has this problem and he went on and on about how this problem is caused by the exhaust flying around on cornering and how he fixed the problem with titanium bolts from "baller bolts". Later that day his turbo came loose and he wanted Trackspeed's contact info, lol. I could have stretched those bolts in 3 laps, for the record.

It's funny how so many people have this problem, yet a short list of people have the answer.
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:19 PM   #23
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For what reason?

Don't know about the ETD but my greddy cast manifold shouldn't have any issues with it that I can think of.
No room. Enlarge the holes and you encroach on the walls of a runner or 2.

I would rather experiment with 8 mm inconel studs than bust my ETD mani.
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:44 PM   #24
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To the OP, IMHO the best is a tubular manifold with standard flange/TSE inconel studs just due to the costs involved with the tial parts:

vband housing, flanges & clamps
ewg
more expensive manifold & downpipe
safety drilling CHRA bolts
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:55 PM   #25
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I was going to say, this question could be answered with one variable...... how much are you willing you spend?

Pros and Cons to both, but each resolve the issue.
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:20 PM   #26
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FWIW I have had my TSE studs in my mani for about 4 months now? My studs haven't come loose or broken. They don't even look burned. I think that is winning.

Savington you may want to put something in the instructions about "be careful with the studs until they work harden". I noticed that the incolnel was kinda maleable and I almost messed some threads up when I did the initial install. After they were on the car for a while they were very hard.
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:23 PM   #27
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I drilled my greddy etd manifold and td04 for 10mm studs without issue.

I used rb26dett turbo studs (inconel) and did not have any failures from multiple track days. Studs are also cheap from Nissan.
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Old 04-13-2011, 02:30 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Savington you may want to put something in the instructions about "be careful with the studs until they work harden". I noticed that the incolnel was kinda maleable and I almost messed some threads up when I did the initial install. After they were on the car for a while they were very hard.
Yeah, we do say that thread quality in the manifold is really, really important.

It's probably not working hardening, FYI - it's likely heat treating.
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Old 04-13-2011, 05:01 PM   #29
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I drilled my greddy etd manifold and td04 for 10mm studs without issue.
I suspect the ETD shorty is very different. Pix later.
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Old 04-13-2011, 06:16 PM   #30
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Flossin with V-bands isn't something most of you could handle anyway.
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Old 04-15-2011, 11:55 AM   #31
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Flossin with V-bands isn't something most of you could handle anyway.
Correct.

Anyways, if I had a setup that used 10mm bolts, I wouldn't be dicking around asking questions I'd just buy Sav's kit. As it is, some of the less popular/lower budget kits run 8mm bolts, and call us flacid for our puny studs but we'd like see if we can get in on a little piece of the good stuff and possibly run the 10mm kit or find an 8mm solution.
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Old 04-16-2011, 03:12 PM   #32
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I drilled/tapped my older BEGi manifold for TSE 10mm studs and enlarged the holes in the T25 without issue. You have to set the turbo partially in place and then put the nuts on, they won't go on with the turbo fully seated.

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Old 04-19-2011, 11:42 PM   #33
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My other problem with the ETD shorty mani is that I needed to cut one of the studs to be able to mount it.

Would inconel be impossible to cut with a hacksaw?
Cutoff wheel?
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Old 04-20-2011, 12:24 AM   #34
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I would imagine Savington's supplier could get him 8mm, the cost would just be a lot higher due to low quantity, might be an option idk
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Old 04-20-2011, 01:31 AM   #35
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Quote:
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I drilled my greddy etd manifold and td04 for 10mm studs without issue.

I used rb26dett turbo studs (inconel) and did not have any failures from multiple track days. Studs are also cheap from Nissan.
So how are the Begi/TSE studs different than the RB26 studs? Are they 10mm x 1.5 x ~47mm?
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:02 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
My other problem with the ETD shorty mani is that I needed to cut one of the studs to be able to mount it.

Would inconel be impossible to cut with a hacksaw?
Cutoff wheel?
cutting inconel shouldn't be an issue. It will be more difficult than a regular bolt of course but not impossible. Cutoff wheel would definitely do it cleanly.
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Old 04-20-2011, 02:13 PM   #37
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I would imagine Savington's supplier could get him 8mm, the cost would just be a lot higher due to low quantity, might be an option idk
The cost of the 10mm kit is already fairly high - it's justifiable, and when in comes down to it what's $200 if it makes your car reliable at the track? But, I don't think there would be much if any of a market for a $250-$300 8mm kit (just throwing out a number here), especially since a lot of the guys who have 8mm studs have more budget oriented turbo setups, myself included.

After Buttonwillow, my current setup is holding. Right now I have ATP turbo studs and locking nuts and nordlock washers from FM. As this car does run on a tight budget, I'll pursue the 10mm conversion avenue if/when my current stuff doesn't work any more. However, I am only running 7psi at the track - for reliability - so I am creating much less heat and stress than many of you, and that may mean my setup will be just fine.

Andrew looked at my turbo over the weekend and was actually surprised by the amount of room that it had - apparently the main issue will be the 15mm nut - they used to use 14mm nuts but not anymore, so if my studs die I'll take the turbo off and measure from the centerpoint of the hole to the nearest obstruction and I'll know if his kit will be useable on a TDO4. If anyone has a TD04 off their car, please give it a measure and let me know.

-Ryan
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Old 04-20-2011, 02:36 PM   #38
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So how are the Begi/TSE studs different than the RB26 studs? Are they 10mm x 1.5 x ~47mm?
Ours are a bit shorter than that. Depending on the length on each side and the center shank, it may not fit on the lower rear stud location on a T25 turbo setup. I don't think the RB26 studs are 1.5 either - rumor has it that they are 1.25 pitch.

We can do a run of M8 studs- I need 10 guys to commit to it at the cost on the website (~160), and I cannot offer any sort of guarantee/warranty since they will be totally untested. They will be the same as the M10 studs - same alloy, same super high quality, same rolled threads. The testing part is why we've never explored it - it was hard enough to get the M10 studs properly vetted.
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Old 04-20-2011, 02:42 PM   #39
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Count me in.
What non-safety-wire nuts do you recommend?
I'm not a he-man track stud so 8mm inconel studs and decent nuts shd work OK.
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Old 04-20-2011, 02:54 PM   #40
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The Resbond/Stage8 combo seems to do the trick for us.
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