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Old 02-08-2016, 04:12 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Dietcoke View Post
Because the **** the question being discussed is "Looking to get an idea who is not running helper springs on their track cars." ie: the first post.

And I'm not. Anything else you'd like to cry about?
And the first post specifically references Xidas sooo...
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Old 02-08-2016, 04:18 AM   #42
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And the first post specifically references Xidas sooo...
Seperately from the first question and thread topic sooo...
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Old 02-08-2016, 12:04 PM   #43
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People have that issue, ever? If I set my coilovers to 1/4 height, my exhaust and transmission would be resting on the ground.
All Miatas with XIDAs and 700# or higher front springs have that issue.
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Old 02-08-2016, 01:52 PM   #44
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All of your posts can be summed up by HEY GUYS DID YOU KNOW I HAD AN EXOCET

Congrats on being the 1% of Xidas users.
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Old 02-08-2016, 01:53 PM   #45
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He doesn't even have xidas bro.
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Old 02-08-2016, 06:40 PM   #46
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What is the round clamp called that is affixed to the swaybar in the first "suspension cam" video?

Does this improve swaybar performance? or general suspension performance?
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Old 02-08-2016, 06:50 PM   #47
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That's just a split shaft clamp, keeps the swaybar center.

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Old 02-08-2016, 09:08 PM   #48
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^thanks
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Old 02-09-2016, 03:49 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Dietcoke View Post
No, it will not be, lol. Just like in the exocet video posted a few posts up, while the stock spring would come unseated without the helper (even though the helper is only functioning as a SPACER to the perch), a 1.5" longer spring (the length of the crushed helper) would do the exact same thing, and eliminate the need to run the helper at all, because it will never come uncompressed in that setup on the front end, only the rear, which is why I have helpers in the back.
if you have say a 700# 6" long spring and you adjust the perch to get your ride height at a preferred value you end up with say 1.5" of gap between the spring and the perch when its unloaded. If you replace that spring with an 700# 8" long spring then re-adjust the perch to get the same ride height. you will have the same 1.5" gap between the perch and the spring when its unloaded. its just that your adjustable collar will be set 2" lower on the shock body to achieve the same ride height.

The only way you are going to change that is by going to a lower spring rate or having a section of the spring operate at a lower spring rate such as a helper spring.
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Old 02-09-2016, 05:08 PM   #50
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If the front spring is 6 inches you should run a tender spring, on a Miata. If you are using a 7 inch front spring depending on ride height, you might not need the tender spring. With a Racing Beat front bar, I'm not sure that you'll have enough droop to warrant a tender with a 7 inch spring unless you get both front wheels off the ground.

Home - PAC Racing Springs have very good prices on tender springs, listed as flat wire springs.
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Old 02-09-2016, 05:11 PM   #51
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FWIW there is a difference between helper and tender springs even though the 2 are often used interchangeably.

Tender only locates the coil when extended, and usually has close to nothing spring rate.

Helper are lower (~100#) springs that locate and provide some spring rate when extended.
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Old 02-09-2016, 05:25 PM   #52
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Yes, you could need a helper spring no matter the length of the main spring.

A 6 inch 700" spring under the front of a 2K miata weight will compress something stupid like around a half of an inch. If that is the only spring you have, then at most you will only have a half inch of droop travel. If it's a 550lb spring, it's still only barely over the fat side of 1/2" of compression under the weight of the car.

Regardless, a 8" spring and a 6" spring rated for the same thing (700lbs/inch) are both going to compress the same amount. More ridiculous bullshit from wannafbody...
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Old 02-09-2016, 06:34 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by wannafbody View Post
If the front spring is 6 inches you should run a tender spring, on a Miata. If you are using a 7 inch front spring depending on ride height, you might not need the tender spring. With a Racing Beat front bar, I'm not sure that you'll have enough droop to warrant a tender with a 7 inch spring unless you get both front wheels off the ground.

Home - PAC Racing Springs have very good prices on tender springs, listed as flat wire springs.
Lots of misunderstanding of basic engineering and math here

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT LENGTH SPRING YOU USE ONE BIT the only thing that matters is the spring rate the amount of shock travel and where you set your ride height. longer springs should be used for coil bind issues only. Run stiff springs and they don't deflect much when you put the static weight of the car on them. The shocks have enough rebound travel to run soft springs which if you put the weight of the car on them they deflect a lot. If you don't run soft springs then the shocks have more rebound travel than the springs have completely unrelated to the static length of the spring. OEM springs are like 150 lbs/in and you need a spring compressor to assemble them we are putting 700 + in there. I'm actually using 1000’s in front on my car.

Last edited by bbundy; 02-09-2016 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 02-10-2016, 04:31 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
if you have say a 700# 6" long spring and you adjust the perch to get your ride height at a preferred value you end up with say 1.5" of gap between the spring and the perch when its unloaded. If you replace that spring with an 700# 8" long spring then re-adjust the perch to get the same ride height. you will have the same 1.5" gap between the perch and the spring when its unloaded. its just that your adjustable collar will be set 2" lower on the shock body to achieve the same ride height.

The only way you are going to change that is by going to a lower spring rate or having a section of the spring operate at a lower spring rate such as a helper spring.
Your logic is close, but incorrect. Let me tell you how it actually worked. I had a 5.5" spring and a 1.5" gap when unloaded. This gap was previously taken up by a helper spring (Which stayed completely compressed at all times, since there was no extra shock travel for it to come uncompressed).

Since the helper spring just acted as a spacer to the spring perch, I replaced the 5.5 with a 7" spring, and all is well, the gap is gone, and perch height and ride height hasnt changed. Make sense?
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Old 02-10-2016, 04:55 AM   #55
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You must be running some seriously shitty suspension. Either that or you don't run real men springrates, you ride sky high, or you've fucked **** up with the rod ends. An exocet don't weigh anything, makes no sense that you have no droop travel at all. If you drive into a pothole more than a half inch deep you are flying, same thing off big enough bumps. The tire could be put into the road with the force of a helper spring, instead you are content on relying on gravity alone.

Whatever floats your boat. Can I drive over and buy your helper springs?
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Old 02-10-2016, 09:08 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dietcoke View Post
Your logic is close, but incorrect. Let me tell you how it actually worked. I had a 5.5" spring and a 1.5" gap when unloaded. This gap was previously taken up by a helper spring (Which stayed completely compressed at all times, since there was no extra shock travel for it to come uncompressed).

Since the helper spring just acted as a spacer to the spring perch, I replaced the 5.5 with a 7" spring, and all is well, the gap is gone, and perch height and ride height hasnt changed. Make sense?
No your **** doesn't make sense. Stop blabbering nonsense. Either you can't measure ride height or you are just stupid. But you are wrong.

A 5.5 inch spring and a 7 inch spring with the same perch height and no helper. The 5.5 inch spring car will sit 1 inch lower to the floor. (Because 1.5" motion ratio)
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Old 02-10-2016, 09:54 AM   #57
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Default Exocet suspension geometry issues

Exocets have their upper shock mounts nearly 2" higher than a Miata. We discovered this about a year ago when attempting to align one in our shop. We published our results. Exomotive now offers a spacer to allow Miata shocks to work. I heard a rumor that Exo was considering relocating the shock mount locations for the US market. Why the geometry error? It was intentional to allow those running stock shocks/springs to be "lowered". That didn't work either way. In any case, we always warn customers not to attempt Xida install on an Exocet unless the optional spacers are installed to correct the Exos geometry.

Leave the spacers out with JDM adjustable coilovers (short stroke) and the shocks will not only be topped out, you will have significant preload there too. To say the car will not handle well is an understatement. They get away with bad setup because of their extraordinary power to weight. I have other issues with the platform but thats for another time.
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Old 02-10-2016, 10:46 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
... I have other issues with the platform but thats for another time.
Could you please elaborate on this- maybe in another thread? I'm trying to decide between building an Exocet and an Eliminator. Any input from you would be MOST appreciated.
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Old 02-10-2016, 12:05 PM   #59
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Could you please elaborate on this- maybe in another thread? I'm trying to decide between building an Exocet and an Eliminator. Any input from you would be MOST appreciated.
No opinion on the Eliminator. I can not recommend the Exocet, this based on direct personal experience. I choose not to elaborate here or offline though. My .02

Edit: I only bring up the shock placement issue because not every Xida customer with an Exocet understands or even knows of the potential set up difficulty. Incidentally, once the spacers are in and correct ride height is set, the chassis is not "low". To put the piston in the same part of the stroke as it would be in a Miata, the ground clearance under the frame is 8-10". This is not correctable but just how the thing is fundamentally laid out.

Last edited by emilio700; 02-10-2016 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 02-10-2016, 12:07 PM   #60
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The eliminator is all stock Miata geometry. So no issues there.
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