Hi Guys,

I'm looking to replace my old 2560R which I believe is starting to fail. My power goal is around 300 HP. I mainly autocross the car, so spooling quickly is very desirable. I don't plan to go further than a 6 speed for a transmission.
I'm still learning turbo sizing and the different number/naming/generations.

I was hoping to get some quick feedback. There is a GT2860RS on marketplace with a ~5000 miles on it for $550. Note that this is not a GTX, the seller said is was "like a first gen GTX". All the 2860 info I've found in my little bit of research is about either the older Gt2860R or the GTX2860. This one has a 0.86 AR housing.

The other option I'm considering is a Pulsar PSR2860, which seems comparable to a GTX2860RS. I could order this with a 0.86 or 0.64 AR housing. Brand new, this configuration would be about $650.

Any thoughts? I'm leaning towards the Pulsar, but I would expect a bit more life out of the Garrett. I assume the Pulsar, especially configured with the 0.64 AR housing would spool quite a bit quicker than the GT.
The spool up on my 2560 is working for me for now. That's my only real reference point, as I'm new to the turbo world.

I plan to do some more research/reading, I'm just autocrossing this weekend so I haven't found the time. I am trying to make a decision the next couple days.

 

I have a PTX2860r on my stock block 97 and I am very happy with it it spools way quicker than I was hoping for, here is the spool data

Engine: Stock 1997 BP
Turbo: Pulsar PTX2860R gen 2 .64AR IWG Turbine housing
Manifold: Kraken low-mount
Downpipe: Kraken 3”
Exhaust Size: Kraken 3”
Exhaust Components: Kraken 3" cat + resonator + muffler
Head: Stock 97 head
Intake: Kraken 7inch intercooler + filter
Engine Management: UA4C Speeduino
Boost control: 34B Chinese Mac valve
Other Spoolin' Helpers/Hurters: -
Trans & Diff: 5-Speed with 4.1 Torsen
Rear tire size: 185/60r14

FOURTH GEAR PULL

RPM - PSI
1531 - 0
1649 - 0.79
1746 - 1.13
1942 - 2.36
2050 - 2.79
2153 - 3.58
2249 - 4.28
2350 - 4.66
2463 - 5.54
2558 - 5.93
2667 - 6.86
2746 - 7.72
2846 - 8.48
2930 - 9.03 - target boost
3052 - 9.29
3170 - 9.47

 

Thanks for the data. I think I saw your data in the spool thread. 9 PSI by 3K seems great and I'll have my 3" exhaust on soon to help with that.

How long have you been running it? Any concerns over longevity. That's my main thought for going Garrett over Pulsar.

 

Thats not bad ... I've been trying to decide on an inexpensive street setup and figured the g25 was too big & slow, but I'd be happy with response like that. Plus, there's more headroom if I wanted to crank it up later. Hmm 🤔

 

@adam86 Do you have a rough idea of how little horsepower you can/have run with that turbo?

While my end goal is around 300 HP, I plan to run closer to 200 while I continue to develop the rest of the car. I've been looking at the PSR Gen 2, which looks comparable to the GTX Gen2.

Data on the GT2860RS and GTX2860R from Garret's website make the GTX Gen 2 look like it would have a much more usable range for my application. This is assuming that the PSR Gen 2 is roughly equivalent to the GTX Gen 2. I haven't found any HP estimates from Pulsar's website.

 

@SimBa I just installed it 3 weeks ago on my stock 97 engine, you can run as low as 7psi but you need to port the wastegate a bit if you run 3in exhaust, especially without a cat.
I have not dyno tuned the car yet but on virtual dyno I am at about 200whp at 9psi and creep to 10psi at the top.





If you remove the 3 black spacers inside the wastegate actuator you can go as low as 4psi but it creeps up top a bit

 

I have a very similar setup:
Garrett GTX2860R Gen2 0.64 HOUSINGS, PSR 2860 (cast wheel) BB-CHRA and a genuine replacement GTX2860R Gen2 compressor wheel. All balanced and running for like two years.
Coming from a Garrett 2560R 0.64 I don't feel that much difference, if there is any at all in spoolup. Maybe a tiny bit from 2000rpm up, but it's mostly the very different sound it makes and how much more power it makes up top. It has a constant relatively loud whine, even in vacuum, where the 2560 doesn't make any whining noises. People love this stuff, but I think it can be annoying on longer trips. You can hear it very clearly cruising even at 60mph or more...

I suggest a new Pulsar gen 2 2860 .64, they also have a very good warranty

note:
I'm running an 8psi gate, cnc ported housing and hand ported flapper. I creep to 9-10psi at 6000rpm, but I can run ~21psi with a 3 port pierburg boost controller

 

Thanks for the input guys. I figured the wastegate would need a bit of tuning/porting. I actually just got my 3" exhaust in today, so that will be something for me to keep in mind. My engine is built but I'm still on a 5 speed.

So far I'm hearing nothing but good things about Pulsar. Looks promising.

 

just another persons 2 cents, Ive been running a PSR2860"gen2" for a couple years now and am pretty happy with it but im a 1.6L been running it at around 28psi for a good while now, would go more but maxing out a 3 bar map sensor. No clue what power its making but i believe i want to go a bit bigger one of these days maybe a 3071 or 3076, not sure is a 2871 is going to be as big of a gain im looking for. Id say the 2860's decent for a stock block.

 

I'm not running the PSR 2860R Gen2 or the 2867R Gen2, but the PSR 4849G (G25-550 clone). In terms of quality, I was very impressed. It came with the "billet" wastegate actuator when I purchased it through Kraken which feels amazing. The adjustable rod length is a really nice thing to have compared to my old stamped metal 2560R actuator. It is definitely too big for your use case, though. At autocross, unless I am above 4000rpms the turbo's response leaves a lot to be desired. On the street and perhaps a road course, I believe it is perfect since it can make high 300s on pump gas and deep into the 400s on e85. Due to the lag and the punch of power that occurs when it finally does spool, I would not recommend this at all for autocross if you're trying to be as competitive as possible. It is fun as hell though...

Have you considered the GBC22-350? It seems like it can be had for around $900-$1000, but should spool even faster than the 2560R with a slightly better top end. The 2860R Gen2 will make heaps more power (up to approximately 350-375 whp fairly easily), but if peak spool is what you'd like more than more power, the GBC22-350 looks like a great turbo for 300whp. Looking at the compressor map it should be good for another 20-30whp on top of the GT2560R which is known to be good for right at 280whp.

 

Thanks to both of you for the input. The 22-350 wasn't on my radar, but it looks interesting. I'll keep that in mind.

I believe my 2560 is a pretty old unit, so I'm curious if the GTX2860 would seem like a downgrade in spool, or if the newer technology and the 0.64 AR housing would make up for the size difference.
I'm continuing to chew through this and decide if the shaft play seems excessive or if I should keep running it. FWIW my turbo is still spooling fine and isn't making any new noises.

 

Just out of curiosity, what kind of power are you making and at what rpm do you hit 28psi? Haven't seen any data of a PSR 2860 II on a 1.6 before.

 

Never had it on a dyno and cant get VirtualDyno to work with haltech logs, id say if i started in 4th gear i could hit 28 by 4500-4700ish if i remember right or somewhere around there hard to remember exactly have had the car down for a while doing a transmissions swap. Rods only stock pistons and what not and E85, its really nothing crazy parts wise but id say the 2860 is about out of breath where its at.

 

I'm running an OG gt2860rs "disco potato" on my car (bp4w 1.8 "rods only" build) and I have some thoughts about this.

First, the turbo is a wee bit lazy, but not as bad as I thought it would be. I need to do a 4th gear pull to get some current spool data, but I hit 18psi by 4400 rpm or so, 12psi by 3,900 and 5-6psi by 3,200 or so. Lots of torque down low too, but not a ramp of torque like a smaller turbo, just a genera big motor feel and the car never feels dead or laggy. It's more linear, I've had friends compare it to being similar to a rotrex at lower boost levels, like 10-12psi where I run it at the track, just better (lots more torque). Super tractable easy to use power, and the car still made 260whp at 12psi (on e85) so it makes pretty good power. The car made 310whp at 16-18psi and tapped out the turbo, so it's not a huge turbo by any means.

I've contemplated moving to a GTX, but I have a few thoughts about that vs the current setup. First, the power delivery on the OG 2860 is a lot less likely to destroy your drivetrain. Massive quick spooling ramping of torque will do that, and the more linear power of the oldskool 2860 makes that much less likely. There's also less "hit" between gears (though it does NOT fall on its face), and I believe that softness has helped my 5 speed hold up to 250+whp for so long (and 300+whp on the street).

I also think the turbo having limits of just over 300whp is not a terrible thing (since my goals are to keep it on miata drivetrain, a 6 speed eventually), the GTX for example could overboost and grenade a motor/trans/diff, and I don't worry about that with my OG turbo. I like to think this turbo choice keeps my car safe from things like extreme rod pressures/bearing pressures that you get from a smaller turbo full spooling at 3500 and loading things up moree.

I also like to tell myself that the oldskool turbo fits the character of the car more, it's more era correct, and goes with the primitive BP oldskool turbo rally car design origins of the motor.

Not to encourage you to run the old turbo, lots of folks will disagree, but I do think there are some advantages of not running the newest most aggressive spooling turbos out there when considering the whole scope of the car, drivetrain, and motor limitations you might have.

That said, you always want more power and I've heavily considered a GTX. With good tuning and boost control you could get all benefits of a GTX without these drawbacks.

 

Thanks for the input DC. I haven't heard too much argument in favor of the older stuff. People were probably freaking out about how awesome that turbo was when it came out, so I'm sure it's still a great option if you're not looking for all the bells and whistles.

The one I was looking at ended up selling already, so I don't think I'll be going that route. I think at this point I'll be grabbing a Pulsar when/if I need to. I figure a 0 mile turbo, newer tech and a wider HP range are all worth it to me, even if it's the knockoff brand.
My boost controller is keeping a pretty flat torque curve right now and I've got boost cut setup. I'm not worried about the power levels for the engine/diff, although the trans is getting old.

 

Go with the Pulsar and .64AR housing. It will work better then the older 2860.

 

Been watching this thread, to see if I made a mistake - I have this setup, making 196rwkw, about 260 ponypower, tuned to protect the gearbox. Quite happy with it so far, but track looms and can I control that 'moah power' urge ...