EO2K contemplates the universe, his rotrex, and why they both full of fail
 

Broken out from some comments here: https://www.miataturbo.net/showthrea...269#post808269

Lets keep the "LOL@Rotrex, u shuda git thurboh" comments to a minimum? :magna:

I am using the stock supplied 88mm (iirc) pulley that came with the kit. The more I think about this and the more I read, it HAS TO BE and alignment issue. The problem is the lack of adjustability in the mounting system.

Falco: Do you happen to know if your 1.6 mounting plate is the same as the 1.8 version? If they are the same, and IIRC,

1. You are not running the AC or PS so you don't have the PS mounting points for the backing plate
2. You are running a genuine rotrex pulley (as opposed to the KW one) so your spacing may be slightly different

Without AC & PS that gives you a long belt run between the rotrex & crank to take up any misalignment that may be in the system. I'm just pissing in the wind here, but that may be part of it.

Rotrex came out of the car last night. I looped the oil lines so the oil reservoir and cooling system remain mounted for later. Just under 2 hours to put it back to stock. So I've got that goin for me, which is nice.

Not sure to be honest. I had a buddy here who had a rotrex and i was going to buy his shiii and kraftwerks said it would not fit. My guess is the offset is different since the length and the bore spacing is different from the B6 and BP.

I am also as you said not running AC or PS.. so ya it may be enough to take up misalignment. But looking at my belt it looks as straight as an arrow.

you sir are experiencing the reason I ditched my Rotrex

I think three things are at play

one - belt retention was harder with 150mm overspeed crank pulley
two - the absence of any fore/aft adjustment on the Rotrex mounting bracket [forced me to experiment with adding washer/shims to the brace that bolts to the rear of the mounting bracket]
three - not so sure that the mounting bracket doesn't flex at speed

my experience was it would start eating belts, I would fiddle and adjust until it wouldn't, and that would last about 1 week and the process would start all over again

I would add, that when the Rotrex was right, it was awesome; 60 to 80 in two car lengths, convinced me to stay with a centrifugal blower and not return to a PD [even though I have a new MP-90 in a box in my garage]

good luck

I installed my c30-74 @ 90k miles and am now approaching 135k, consisting of DD and several track days. When I initially installed mine there were some belt alignment issues. It turned out that KW had a couple earlier generations of pulley and mounting plates, which had slightly different offsets. Once we figured out that I happened to recieve mixed generations and got it changed, I have had zero belt issues. I think this could be the issue alot of people have encountered. In fact I started emailing Brian last week about getting some oil and a new filter (so many miles that I'm due for a traction fluid change) as well as a 75mm pulley and a restrictor.

Good to see I'm not the only one with that issue. The Skunk2 boys claim that "You are the only one that has had belt issues" but I feel this may be a misnomer. The helpdesk call center has a tendency to be real quiet when you unplug the phone :vash:

mx594m: Were you able to get in touch with Kraftwerks or Skunk2 about the issue? Was there any attempt to make it right?

Scooter25: Glad to hear there might be hope. Any chance you have some info on how to identify the mounting plates or the different pulleys? When did you initially purchase your kit?

Apparently all email communication has halted once again after the "remove the rotrex" recommendation. I'll get out the sharp stick again today and see what happens.

turbos dont eat belts, they eat :insert car make/model:.

ಠ_ಠ
I like what Mobius said in the other thread:
I'm obviously a "doesn't" but there does not seem to be any path to make it work unless I start shimming things with washers (but I think that's pushing me the wrong way) or hogging my own mounting system out of 1/4" aluminum plate, and neither is attractive. I stopped working in CNC manufacturing years ago. I don't get the same thrill out of re-engineering things like I used to when I was younger.

Braineack: in all seriousness, I've thought going turbo for the last couple months. Another member here who bought my previous Black 95 NA put a used BEGi Sx system w/GT2554 w/IC & MSPNP. He's making right around 200-ish whp @ 10-ish psi on a completely stock 175k engine. He keeps offering to let me drive it but I can't bring myself to do it. That DIYPNP you built for me is still sitting on my workbench next to the C30-74 mocking me. Right next to my RX7 red tops, AEM UEGO wideband, boost gauge, dual feed rail, square top manifold, BP5A cam, Walbro HP, Godspeed M IC.... this list is long and distinguished and frighteningly embarrassing. I tend to think I've tried to do this right, but I clicked the wrong box when asked for a forced induction method.

I see 3 paths for this build:

1) Try to sell the rotrex with minimal loss and go turbo. (lulz)
2) Get KW/S2 to fix my rotrex issues and then try to be happy with it. (more lulz)
3) Stay NA for "reliability" and hang with the whitebread peeps on m.net :facepalm:

I'm in CA so I'm just as illegal with either path. I bought into the "CARB pending" crap with the Rotrex because no one makes a legal turbo kit for me. Ease of removal with lack of permanent mods pulled me pretty hard with the rotrex, but I'm beginning to think turbo is not nearly as bad as I've been led to believe (other than the pan drilling.) I've been internet stalking MartinezA92 :wave: and some of the other local CA turbo guys to see how they deal with the biannual inspection thing.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1325290046
Frustrations: I has dem

At this point, I have everything I need to make 200hp (or more) street driven HP on a stock engine without spending any more money, its just does not work as advertised. I've been watching guys like Jfornachon and a few others try to move used rotrex kits for as little as $2,500 in the last couple months, and the market is not exactly scrambling even at that price. If I could get $2.5k, I'm still not sure I could get mani/dp/full exhaust/turbo/charge pipes & coolant lines at that price point, unless I find a spectacular part-out. It all comes down to $$$ and I freely admit I bet all mine on the wrong damn horse. So much for trying something different...

I bought my kit in June '10. The only visual difference that I recall is on my first pulley the the belt sat within the pulley between some outer ridges. On the second pulley there are no ridges or guides. I'm going down to KW/S2 on the 9th to get a 75mm and restrictor. When I get the new pulley put on I'll take some pics of both variations of the 88mm pulleys side by side.

EO2K - I feel your pain - even without the requirement of periodic inspection I opted to ditch the Rotrex; sold it for 60 cents on the purchase dollar, I am happy, the buyer is too. Was tempted to go back to a twin screw, but really like the linearity of the centrifugal, hence, the turbo.

Did I contact 949 and KW; yes; but with limited result; my install shop managed to break the auto tensioner and Sr. Jackson replaced it. It is my unscientific observation that about 50% of the Rotrex installs on the miata engine have issues involving the belt, pulleys, brackets. I know of two really successful non-professional installations; Coral Doc in Fla and Falcon[?] in BC.

since you aren't using them, sell me your COPs and MS2 -- LOL

BTW - put a deposit on a 6-speed last night, pick it up after the new year, a nice addition to the 3.63 I have in the garage

anyone here have any experience running ATF in the transmission instead of Redline?

I'd go down there myself but I might end up punching someone at this point. No reply from Brian or anyone else from Skunk2 atm, but I'll give them a little leeway for the holiday season. Is that 75mm a KW or a genuine Rotrex pulley? Either way, I'd love to 'borrow' your working 88mm (or whatever size you have that works) so I could take it to the shop and get some solid measurements. I'd be willing to paypal you a deposit or somesuch if that makes you feel better, PM me if you are interested.

Geebus, $0.60 on the dollar was a hell of a deal for someone, 75% is about as much as I could stomach currently. My problem right now is that I'm a "Nice Guy" and would never be able to sleep again if I sold this thing with these issues... full disclosure would be a must. Unless it was to some Toyota or BMW guy who just wanted it as a spare/upsized head unit, or someone doing a custom build. My rotrex head unit itself is fine, its the mounting that is fail.

When I bought my kit from 949 in April, I asked and was told there were about 200 of these things on the road. I can't quite see there being 100 some odd people out there with belt issues, there would be far more OMGWTFROTREXBBQ threads out there than I've seen. Also... CoralDoc, Trackdayhooky and Falcon are all running no ps/ac, running race kits with custom spec blowers. IIRC C30-94 for Falcon and a C38-94 monstrosity for TDH, not sure what the 'Doc is running, might be a C15-60 on a 1.8? I honestly don't remember. I stopped reading because it made me even more grumpy with myself for feeling like a whiny little beotch.

I'm pretty sure you don't want my MS2, its a DIYPNP for a 99/00, not sure it would work on your 94.

As for the COPs, just DIY mang! It was super easy. Even I was able to figure it out! I got a set of connectors from Ballenger Motorsport for $8.99/ea w/pigtails, and later got a full set of COPs and connectors from a forum member on here for around $100. I snagged a spare eBay 90919-02244 COP for $15 to keep in the trunk. Wiring instructions are in the mega COP thread. Just did 700+ miles this holiday season NA (no rotrex) w/COPs, works fine with my stock ECU and no dwell reduction. Super easy and a damn sight cheaper than a replacement 99/00 failboat stock coil.

I came very close to buying a 6 speed and a 3.63 (or whatever ratio it was) torsen several months ago, but seeing as my car was undriveable, it didn't make much sense at the time :crx:

Don't be a wus, Amsoil or Redline in that 6 speed. It's really not that expensive to run something decent. ;)

I figured I would chime in here since my friend and I installed a Kraftwerks Rotrex Stage 1 kit on his 2001 Miata over a year ago. He has done multiple open track days and a couple of autocrosses, as well as street driving it with no issues.

We took our time during the install, making sure everything lined up between the pulleys. His kit came with the 4 rib pulley on the Rotrex that has the higher ridges on the front and back side. He is using the original Gates Blue belt, and the car has power steering and A/C. The S/C belt chirps for the first couple of minutes after startup, but after things get warmed up it is quiet. We get the same high pitched whistle at idle from the intake filter everyone else seems to.

About 6 months ago I removed the idler puller and the autotensioner pulley to repack the bearings with high temp grease, since I had seen where others had some issues with them self destructing. At that time I noticed a little bit of wear on the rear edge of the belt, but nothing serious enough to consider replacing it at that point.

We were waiting anxiously for the Stage 2 upgrade but now it seems it will never happen. My friend is undecided at this point whether to go DIY Stage 2 or sell his car and move to a different track car altogether.

Thanks Tank, make me feel better mine doesn't work :giggle: Any chance you have pics of pulley and idler setup?

:devils advocate:

OP, how is the PAS pump? I had the pump on my NA (not sc) crap out and the shaft walked out (or in, cant remember) slightly, causing it to eat one rib off the belt, but only when I drove it, it looked to run true at idle, but when I put a long flat bar across the pulleys i could see it was slightly off. the SC and where it is located might make it more pronounced.

:/Devils advocate:

EO2K- Sorry, I don't have access to any pics right now. I am currently in Afghanistan. I am heading home in 2 weeks and I will post some pics when I return.

The idler pulley is pretty fussy due to the way the adjuster rod engages the pulley carrier. It took some work to get the idler pulley aligned parallel with the S/C bracket. When the idler pulley bolt is tightened, it tends to put the idler pulley at an angle if you aren't careful. What ended up being the trick for us is tightening the idler pulley down while keeping the tension off the belt with a long ratchet on the auto tensioner. I'm not saying this is your issue, but it is one part of the kit that I thought could have been done better.

Also, the auto-tensioner does not operate very smoothly. It tends to jump from one tightness to another instead of continuously adjusting. I pulled it apart and lubed it, but it didn't make much difference. It doesn't seem to cause any problems as it is. When you rev the motor it takes up the slack as it should.

First off, this is the most humble fail thread I've ever seen.

I put my entire setup together (from ecu to exhaust) for about $1500, excluding the turbo. I cheaped out on the ex mani/dp but even new ARTech stuff would only have pushed me to about $2K. You already have a huge pile of applicable parts as mentioned a few posts above, and if what you list in the above quote is really all you need, then yes $2500 will get you a rock solid setup, with everything new. You could put something reliable for the street together for half of that if you bought used stuff.

Thanks for playing, and I appreciate the input! This had actually occurred to me, but on the crank. I eventually remembered the trust bearing issues in the 99's and started freaking out about clearances in my '00 engine. My dial indicator says everything was within spec. I've pulled on the PS pulley by hand, but not really payed attention. I'll get out the indicator some time this week and check it for realz.

I think its worth noting that I've done about 700 miles naturally aspirated since Dec 20th and I'm seeing no odd belt issues.

Thank you for your service, and I look forward to the pics, as this will indicate you are back home!
I agree, the fixed idler is a bastard to work with. I ran into the same problem with the idler wanting to sit at an angle if there is too much tension on the belt. My auto-tensioner seems to operate in the same manner that you describe, so that makes me feel a little better.

/bow
I'm a supercharger guy on a turbo site. One learns to get humble real quick around here.

I know, this is what's killing me. Used turbo stuff is pretty common, and there are lots of good parts out there waiting to be scooped up. For some reason I kept looking for a kit rather than trying a DIY, and I was looking for ease of install. Like I say, I'm lazy. Hindsight being what it is, I could have saved TONS of time and aggravation (not to mention $$$) by going DIY turbo. Hopefully someone can learn from my mistakes.

The guys from Skunk2 sent me a KraftWerks RMA number this afternoon, along with, surprisingly enough, a prepaid FedEx mailing label. Seems like progress, we'll see how it goes.

Turbo it, put a quiet exhaust on it so you don't attract attention (paint intercooler black, other stealth mods etc.), and make friends with a local CA smog tech (I'm probably not local enough to help you out).

I'm going to knock on every type of wood available here, if you don't drive like a douche you will probably be left alone regardless of your flavor of forced induction.

tl;dr

rotrex < twinscrew

You will never get a power band as hot as this for a centripetal, and i thank the miata gods I found that out before i swapped from twin to rotrex

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1326125567

Yep, that's the plan! Quiet exhaust, recirculating diverter, black IC, and anything else I can get away with. The receding hair line and the grey in the goatee makes me look less like a douche, even when I drive like one. I need some limo black tint for the hardtop and I need to ditch my A pillar gauge pod. I'm open to other tips too :loser: You might be surprised how local I am, we've spoken on NCR :D

While everything you said is true, I CAN NOT STAND that PD blower wail so rotrex > twinscrew for me. The MP45/62 is just too damn loud. I'm following up on some used turbo stuff right now, we'll see how that goes.

I dropped my RMA package in the mail on the morning of the 4th, gotta love how it took FedEx 24 hours to get the box in the system and then 4 days to move it 350 miles to SoCal. I have no clue how these people are putting the USPS out of business :facepalm:

Probably installing the MS2 this weekend so I can get some time in tuning.

Here are the two 88mm pullies that I have. As a note I was mistaken as to which one had the outer ridges. The pulley on the left was the first one I recieved and had issues with the belt riding up the front of the pulley. The pulley on the right as you can see has an extra 2-3mm offset and has given me no issues for the last couple years.[ATTACH]Attachment 31803[/ATTACH]

Glad they followed through. Hope it cures your problem!

Sweet Zombie Jesus!

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1326775806
Yes, that looks quite familiar...

Any chance there is a part number on that revised pulley, so I know what I can ask for? My current has "KraftWerks 016-133 88mm" etched on the face. The car in your sig is a 97 but the 1.8 and its accessory mounting should not have changed between 97 and 00. I'm trying not to get TOO excited but that one pic possibly answers 8 months of frustration.

KraftWerks: ಠ_ಠ

Scott/Scooter25: THANK YOU! :yippee: I regret that I only have one prop to give for that post, but its all yours. I missed your profile visitor message but I did get your PM and will reply shortly.

Good luck, I hope this solves your issues. It's a bummer what everyone has gone through with kraftwerks.

Agreed. I'm just hoping that this thread helps someone else out there who is having similar problems.

Indeed, it looks like the exact same scenario I had. Niether of the pullies I have are labled with any part #. Definitly have Brian refer to this thread, and tell him to shoot me an email if he has any more questions. When I was down there last week it seemed like they were actively trying to sort out the NA kit.

Any status update?

Thanks for asking, but no updates. I spent the weekend dealing with torrential rain and high wind. Not exactly work outside on the car weather. I'll try to see if I have time and the weather cooperates after work this week. Will definitely keep everyone updated.

Where did you get the pulley on the right ?

I actually got both pullies from Kraftwerks.

I got the whole thing installed again last night with the revised mounting plate and auto tensioner. The guys at KW cut the lower alignment pin off the auto tensioner and cut a new notch in the top of the mounting plate for the top pin. Using this notch for the top pin should allow significantly more preload on the auto tensioner than previously. I'll be honest, I'm not super impressed with the new notch. What remains is about 1/16" think wall of aluminum between the original hole and the new notch. As soon as I put tension on it to move it out of the way to get the belt mounted, it deformed. KW assures me its fine, and its under warranty. We'll see. Forgot to take pics, I'll do so if/when I pull it off again.

The standard preload is 2-4mm as listed in my instructions. As you can see, I'm way beyond that now
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1327431582

You can barely see it, but down in the lower right corner of the image you can see the new "fixed" idler. This is a revised part that I opted to purchase. Its steel instead of plastic and I believe the face is flat, not crowned like my original. It has a single bearing of larger diameter and its held in place with a snap ring. Unlike the original plastic bodied dual bearing unit, this one should actually be serviceable with an off the shelf Timken or NSK sealed bearing. This idler is also larger in diameter than the plastic one so it causes interference with the steel hardline that connects to the power steering pump. There is about 1/8" clearance between the pulley and the steel hardline now, and I've used up about 1/2 of the available adjustment range on the "fixed" idler to get there.

I primed the oiling system and started it with no complaints. I let it run for 30 minutes at idle until everything warmed up. I drove around the neighborhood for 10 minutes and then checked the belt and clearances. Everything looked good so I went and drove my standard 15 mile "test drive route" and checked things again, so far so good. I didn't really push it into boost quite yet, I want to go easy on this belt for a couple days before I start abusing it. I drove it to work this morning and checked it in the parking lot, still looks good.

To give you an idea of my failure rate, I was previously loosing belts between mile 8 and 10 on my standard test drive loop, an uphill pull @ 60mph. This belt has now lasted at least 4x longer than my other belts. I just need it to last 500x that and I'll be happy.

Good news!

I just got back from Afghanistan and wanted to post some pics of the pulley setup that came with our Rotrex in hopes it will help out anyone having issues.

First - Welcome back and thanks for your service, brother.

Tankrust you appear to have the same version of the kit that I have. The top pin of my autotensioner fits into a hole to the right of the notch in the top, as does yours. You also have the same scuffing on the back of the belt that I have. I asked Emilio about this, and there should be no scuffing of the back of the belt.

So I went and stared closely at things for a while.

I discovered that my autotensioner pulley was not exactly parallel with the other pulleys. Looking from the passenger fender down the belt towards the crank pulley, I could see a slight angle that the belt had to take between the crank pulley and the autotensioner. Also, my autotensioner pulley seemed to be extremely close to the mounting plate. Extremely close as in, there were a couple of marks on the mounting plate and the back of the pulley was scuffed. Lastly, I noticed the engine side of the belt was chafed from riding against the flange on the engine side of the autotensioner pulley. I had not thrown or broken any belts in 10k miles, but most of the blue was worn off, and there was obvious belt dust around the autotensioner.

What I did was create a shim to go underneath/around the bottom mounting pin of the autotensioner. ( Note I specifcally did not use a washer, as that would give the back of the autoensioner something to pivot around. The top of the shim will need to be a straight line.) This spaced it out a bit from the mounting plate to give more clearance there, and has made it parallel (or almost so) to the other pulleys. Even though it is now spaced out farther, the belt does not appear to be riding against the flange as it was before, which would make sense as the previous angle to the pulley would cause the belt to try to climb against the flange.

I only just got the car back on the road today, so haven't stressed it at all, but there was no squeaking at all from the new belt. Previously I would always have some annoying noise at startup until the car (and I assume therefore the belt) was warmed up).

It is indeed. (btw: You internet stalking me? Saw your friend request on m.net the other day :makeout:)

I've been driving on it all week and flogging the hell out of it. It seems to be holding up just fine, but I do get the occasional squeaks from the belt when I first start the car and its cold out ('cold' here in CA is about 45°F :giggle:) Actually, I can't 100% blame the rotrex for that, it could be I need to tighten the alternator belt a bit. I decided to replace it in a fit of madness while I had everything else apart.

Thank you for your service, and welcome back! The pics are in deed helpful! Looking at your pics and the ones in Mobius' build thread, It looks like KW enlarged the notch on the top of my mounting plate only slightly. It looks like you have a bit of wear on the engine side of the belt, have you had any squeaking or howling issues with it? After destroying 3 of the Gates Blue belts @ $40/ea, I stopped using them so I have no idea what a properly worn one looks like.

Mobius: Thanks for posting the info on the shim and the wear you experienced. The more info we can get out there, the better off we all are. The shim on the lower end of the autotensioner is interesting... KW completely removed the bottom "mounting pin" from my autotensioner, perhaps to eliminate this issue? Please keep us posted either way. I ordered your parts list last night from Silicone Intakes and gave FM a call about the charge pipe. Looks like the intercooler is the cheap part of the system!

I'm also curious as to what type of belt tension you guys are running. I noticed from most of the pictures that not everyone did the "draw a line with a sharpe" thing. If you guys pull your autotensioners, please mark them. It would be nice to get some additional data points on belt tension.

Anyone still using that super/power/voodoo/band-aid card, stock injectors and an additional wideband? I've got an AEM UEGO upstream of my cat and I'm seeing mid 12.xx @ 0-1psi, low 11.xx @ 2-3psi, and anything over that, my gauge pegs at max rich (anything over 10.0) and from what I've read, that seems excessive. I'm also wondering what kind of street mileage you guys are seeing. My gas mileage has gone to heeeeeell. Some of that can be expected from heavy right foot action, but I'm looking at a solid 8+mpg loss on my first tank.

I've got a track day scheduled for MRLS on March 31. Hopefully I can get the IC, MS and injectors in and the car tuned before then. I'd prefer not to track it on that bandaid.

Richest I saw with my supercard + oem injectors was 10.8 or so, and those were only brief readings. It was usually in the low elevens.

My first moderate test drive today with the xede showed me I need to pull fuel also - I was able to see 9.x on my LC-1 consistently.

What! You don't want to date a 59 year old bald man with 2 boys that are probably older than you! Actually, I am thinking of going with a Rotrex, but not until I see if anyone is going to stand behind them.

Stalker

Haha! No worries, it had been forever since I logged in over at m.net and my brain did the :idea: thing when I saw your username. Figured I'd ask

I would give Kraftwerks and/or the Jacksons another year to see what happens with the whole Rotrex thing before I'd be willing to recommend it to anyone. It just does not seem to be developed to the point where all the bugs are worked out. It was not my intent to pay to help field test something :crx:

I chose the rotrex for reasons I've already explained so I won't go into it again. If you don't have to deal with the crazy emissions stuff, just call FM or BEGI and get a turbo + exhaust or look for deals on used stuff. There is enough info on this site to keep you busy for quite some time.

Good to hear everything is starting to work out for you. The marks I made on the auto tensioner show roughly 4mm of preload @ idle. I only really get belt squeal on startup when it is cold and damp out. In fact I think my 4runner is worse than the miata :P

It's been a while so I probably owe this thread an update.

Car has been running great, no issues except the occasional squeak. Gas mileage has improved so I'm pretty sure that was just me driving like a jackass. Belts are behaving and are now wearing as expected. Living day-to-day with the rotrex is not that bad. The only thing I notice is the blower seems to make a little more noise when cold than it does before it warms up, but then again so does my engine and transmission. Hell, so do my joints in the morning :)

Tried to install my Megasquirt over the weekend and that didn't go so well... Looks like my MAP sensor may be faulty. I tried everything I could think of and I couldn't get it to work. Brainy has a copy of my MSQ so we'll see if its a config issue or what.

I need to get off my ass and send Brian @ Skunk2 an update email and thank him for his help. The car certainly wouldn't be running this well without his help!

Good to hear that things are moving in the right direction again. Keep it up :)

- Tom

I had my first track day last weekend with the rotrex and it performed flawlessly! w00t! The DFC/super/power/voodoo card is pig-rich and uninspiring, but at least my ---- didn't explode. IAT's (from what I could tell) were WAY warmer than I'm comfortable with so I restarted my intercooler project...

Oh, that reminds me, I've decided to turn this into a build thread where I complain about more things not working properly.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1333827020

I made it home early-ish last night, got all my tools and parts out and got to work. Step one is to pull the nose and the ductwork off the front of the car... Then I lol'd, then reassembled everything and went back in the house. :facepalm:

It looks like the 99/00 cars have a dryer that lives in front of the core:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1333827020
And basically takes up ALLLLL the prime real estate for the end of the core and the hoses. FML.

The internet claims this is a 2001+ core, You can see the dryer on the left side:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1333827020
Mobius build thread seems to back this up. While not insurmountable, its a huge pain in the ass and something I was not prepared for last night. I'm looking into seeing if I can replace the 99/00 condenser with a 01+, plenty of used parts in the FS section.

Also: power steering "cooler" and lines are all kinds of in the way. Mobus sliced his off and ran rubber, I'll have to ask what kind of hose he used. Of course, the quick and dirty fix is to eliminate the AC and depower the steering rack... I'm still trying to decide if I can live without AC.

My Hornetball-style cowl intake is also stalled. I bought pipe and couplers for 2.75" only to discover that 2.75" + coupler + hose clamp is not going to fit in the space between the brake booster and master cylinder. The flange on my Aircraft Spruce duct thing is 2.5" so I'll most likely reorder my plumbing in 2.5". This should pose no restriction as the rotrex inlet is only about 51mm or 2" IIRC.

Brainy got my DIYPNP back to me earlier this week. I've not got it installed yet and it looks like I'm not going to have time to do it this weekend. SUCK! This means I also miss the dyno and tune session with Savington up in San Jose. Much sadness.

I'm also a ----- and bought NT01s:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1333044019
Anyone want to buy my RS3s? Gently used with 4k street miles, 1 track day at Thunderhill and one weekend at Laguna Seca in the rain (last weekend.) I FINALLY managed to rub the "VENTUS" and the flames off the tread this last Sunday. Not abused because I drive like a noob :loser:

My baller VEI gauges and 2004 instrument cluster finally showed up. I will eventually merge these into one unit, and it will be glorious. More on this later.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1333827020
Of course the FIRST THING I did was drop this fucker and crack the lens (lower left.) FML :facepalm:

Also, my coworkers started giving me ---- about driving a "gay car" again. They swapped my mousepad with a grossly undersized pink Hello Kitty unit. I decided to one up them with a new key ring:
Attachment 240010
This seems to have confused them even further. I await their next move.

Crap I need to do:

Figure out my PS/AC bullshit so I can...
Mount and plumb my intercooler
Replace my AEM UEGO with LC1
Temp install VEI AFR & Vac-Boost gauge
Temp install VEI oil pressure & oil temp gauge
Temp install VEI IAT & coolant temp gauges
Install a real header (RacingBeat or OBX or something, no riceland)
Install early gen 1 Flyin' Miata 2.5" stainless turbo exhaust (its not loud :giggle:)
Buy parts for my Hornetball style intake, again

Glad to hear things are getting sorted out.

Regarding the PS cooler, on my car the hard lines run from a bracket on the lower left (left/right as seen from the steering wheel), diagonally up to the hood latch area, then across the hood latch area and loops back. A fairly sizable piece of contoured plumbing. I cut off everything except the horizontal loop part up by the hood latch.

PS hose from any parts store.

More about the gauge cluster plans. I am dissatisfied with my idiot oil pressure gauge in the cluster, and my semi-idiot coolant gauge , and am exploring alternatives. My 3 gauges in the radio console plus a scangauge give me all the information but it would be nice to move more into the cluster.

Very cool, looking forward to seeing progress on this. You might have a bridge to sell me for mentioning this, but apparently KW/Skunk2 are getting back in the game with Rotrex and Miata plans.

There's some chatter over on m.net from people who have spoken with them recently, who have apparently been told they are working on a new Miata kit, IC's, etc with a release date of "this summer"...

This is mildly exciting to someone like me who wants a Rotrex, but, you know, whatever.

Tomi: Thanks!

Mobius: I appreciate the notes on the PS stuff. I've secured a 03 rack for depowerification but its not going to happen any time soon. As soon as I get home, I'll post more about the cluster project :) I've got a ScanGauge II as well but its not exactly easily readable @ 90-100mph.

GDSpeed: Sorry to be a jackhole but with Kraftwerks, I'll believe it when I see it. KW promised simple and AFFORDABLE upgrades for the package, it would be nice to see them deliver. You know, that and my CARB cert :giggle: When I hear "this summer" I think of the CalGuns "two weeks" or the HalfLife3 "soon" :rofl:

I'll have to see if I can find the posts on M.net, it would be interesting to see if they plan on rebuilding the whole thing from scratch or just restarting development on the current kits.

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=454121

There's more chatter elsewhere in the SC section but thats the main thread. KW put a new video on their website/blog/facespace with the statment "redesigned miata kits available soon" so we'll just have to see :hustler:

Gauge Project:

I've done a lot of reading on this and trying to pay attention to what other people are doing. This was pretty much the genesis of what I wanted to do:

As you can see, I can't take full credit for this project. It was inspired by a lot of reading and connecting the dots. I'm currently running an AEM UEGO and matching boost gauge in an A pillar panel. While visibility is decent, it also screams RICE! and MODIFIED! to me. I have the same set of demands... easily view-able non cluttered gauges, no live fluids in the cabin, etc etc.

So what I've got...

D1-BOP-WBA-MO
dual display, boost in psi & wideband in AFR, orange display (LC1 to support)

D1-IAF-WTF-MO
dual display, IAT in F & water temp in F, orange display

D1-OPP-OTF-MO
dual display, Oil pressure in psi & oil temp in F, orange display

...plus a bitchload of sensors.

I did everything in orange because I dislike red and blue is WAY to jarring in the cabin of the car. The orange has just the right amount of "softness" in the color, plus it will match the speedo and tach in the 04 cluster, and I've already changed everything else in the cabin over to orange. :p It may end up being a little more yellow than I was expecting, but it should be fine. Again, because these are in the cluster under the gauge hood, I have no doubt that readability should be spectacular. I'll see if I can power these bishes up tonight and get some pics.

VEI gauges usully have a momentary push button on the face of the gauge that allows you to set parameters. As I'm mounting them behind the factory bezel, the default button placement will be inaccessible. VEI offers what they call the "motorcycle mod" where the gauge is built without a button in the face, and the leads are extended out the back of the gauge for a remote SPST momentary button. I don't plan on accessing these often so I'll probably stash them somewhere out of the way. I'm also reading there is recall and hi/lo alarm settings on these things... I didn't see documentation for that on VEIs site or in the instructions. This would be an unexpected benefit fo sho.

VEI also makes a tiny 41mm (1 5/8") gauge housing. If I decide to go insane and spend more money, I might have them custom build me a temp gauge in this size and use it for the Rotrex oil system.

Jeebus, this could almost be its own thread :loser:

In for pics of powered-up bishes.

And here they are:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1335390182
I tied the power and grounds to the cig lighter circuit just as a test

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1335390182
Good visibility

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1335390182
Temp location, derp

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1335390182
Big ass numbers!

I've got concerns that the bezels on these things may be significantly larger than the 52mm mounting hole, but I've not measured them yet as I can't find my stupid calipers.

With the 3 cameras I own, I CANNOT get a good picture of the color. Its not that yellow. Its like if the stock gauges were brighter, the color is a pretty damn good match. The numbers are huge and highly visible in the cluster opening. The little icons for the gauges are not as easy to read in direct light, but my brain will adapt in time.

I'm thinking I'll get all the sensors and wiring in place and mount this up in the center console to work out the bugs, then move it to the cluster later.

I learned how to take off bra with one hand eyes closed in the dark back in high school.

16 years later it still amazingly impresses the girls. :jerkit:

Funny, I just added the fail tag to this today too :fawk:

MuahahahahahahahHAHAHAH!

I HAZ MS2... and it is GLORIOUS!

On the downside, I now know hate...

• hate for the band-aids fuel solutions
• hate for the factory advance table
• hate for the restrictor that lives in my Rotrex that is stopping me from making more power,
• hate for my NB1 injectors running 90% DC @ 6psi MAP
• hate for my AEM WBo2 and its goofy number offset
• hate for my lack of intercooler
• hate for my factory exhaust

I can see that I've got soooo much more to learn, but I no longer fear the Megasquirt. I guess it helps that it fired up the first time, and that I had Gesso there to kick me in the ass and get me moving. Mad props to him for swinging by and hanging out on this one. We spent a couple of hours driving around running VEAL and figuring out some of the new stuff (he had a MS1 based MSPNP in his 95) and generally seeing what things would do.

I've got a bunch of issues I need to figure out...

• why my AC compressor does not cycle on/off w/AC on
• why it runs so damn lean at startup, but only for 2 minutes or so, then hits targets like a boss
• why my ------- spark plug boots keep pushing off the coil towers (no COPs atm)
• why my idle is 1500RPM (because racecar?)
• AC + headlights + HVAC fan + stereo = 600RPM idle? (This is down from 1500...)
• better location for IAT (KW default location is stoopid)

Gesso also prodded me about my spare steering rack so that may be getting some depowerafication soon. I also finished gathering the correct parts for my Hornetball-style intake. If I can get the holes drilled and the mounting fabbed up, that should go pretty quickly. I need more tools... specifically a drill press and a big vice :loser:

I have seen the top of the mountain, and it is good. This is going to be wicked fun to play with :party:

Consider wrapping your crossover pipe in than thermal barrier reflective tape stuff. That aluminum pipe sitting directly behind the radiator is a huge heat sink, in the wrong direction. With it in place, stock as yours is now, I would regularly see 175 iat when idling about in traffic and whatnot. 135 was common at cruise in mild temps. Now that I'm intercooled that's all in the past. Since you has MS2 now there's nothing keeping you from intercooling. Do eet ! Yesterday on track my IAT's were roughly ambient + 20.

Absolutely need to get my intercooler on! I've got a pile of Reflectix leftovers sitting in my garage from my carboy jacket project that should work for the crossover tube, I'll probably do that in the morning. I know Emilio was using something like that on Crusher IIRC, but I don't remember if he specified what exactly he used.

I'm using the Kraftwerks pre-Rotrex IAT location for my GM IAT sensor, for now. I know its FAR from ideal but my boost is low and timing is super conservative so I can live with it, for now. Anything I can do to keep my IATs down will be a bonus.

Speaking of timing, I somehow screwed it up by 3° so when the MS2 thought it was at 10°, it was actually at 13° :vash: I'm not sure how I screwed that up, but its good to know I've got at least another safe 3° in my entire ignition table :giggle:

The idle is seriously pissing me off. I CAN NOT get it to drop below 1600RPM. I can go into "Idle Valve Test" and manually set the valve to a minimum and get a constant 760-ish idle, so something is telling the IAC to operate, I just can't quite figure out what it is. My "Closed Loop Idle Target RPM" curve looks perfectly fine and my coolant temp sensor is good, so IDKWTF at this point. I've been following these 2 guides:

How Do I Tune My Idle With A Standalone? - MX5nutz
Tuning Idle Valve - Ms2 - MX5nutz

They both look pretty legit, its just not working.

Searching here on MT has led to threads with people having similar issues, but all of them have been related to vacuum leaks. I cut my teeth in the world of carburetors so take my word when I say I know how to identify them, and I know I don't have any. The IAC valve test pretty much proves that anyway.

Also, some more sexy showed up in the mail the other day:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1338441341
I've got a spare injector harness to splice the clips into, so no bulky ugly adapters for me! Hopefully those black injector clips don't cause interference with the fuel rail/intake manifold. They were supplied by FIC for my application, so they should fit... guess Ill find out.

So much sexy and so little time.


Edit: Gesso and I (mostly him, I tweaked my back so bending was somewhat uncomfortable...) installed the muffler from the older 2.5" Flyin' Miata turbo exhaust I picked up form Cordus a couple months ago. I was surprised that it bolted up to the factory midpipe without leaking. Its not super-duper loud but it does have some bass to it! Me likey! I can't wait to find a long tube header and install it with the FM 2.5" midpipe and see what happens.

is Closed loop idle actually activating to drive the idle down?

Add in an indicator for CL idle to tell you.

Also add in an Idle DC guage, what's the idle DC?

(I wrote those guides above ;))

I don't actually know, still learnin' the interface

Will do, I'll play with this some more tonight. I'd have tried this today but the forum was down and I woke up late.

Herp-Derp-Edit: The default dash has a "CL Idle" indicator, it turns green at idle :loser:

And thank you for providing them! :bowdown: I searched and searched through MT but this site is so big and the search function is so sketchy that I couldn't find a guide recent enough, or DIYPNP specific. The google machine has some good results.

I honestly didn't think I was going to get a response in this thread, thanks for stopping by :bigtu:

As long as I have the attention of someone more knowledgeable, I've been reading here:
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquirt-18/ms2-first-start-62918/
and here:
http://www.miataforumz.com/showthread.php?t=374
And both threads recommend turning EGO off before running VEAL. To be 100% honest, I can't figure out how to do that. My ARFs are "close enough" at the moment that the car is driveable, but I'd like to do this "right"

On a related note, today when I started the car, it actually followed the "Closed Loop Idle Target RPM" curve! I tweaked the "Warmup Enrichment Curve" a little bit so it shuts off at 160° rather than 178° or whatever it was. (I think my thermostat is a bit off... my temps were moving around a bit and the WUE kept kicking on while at idle. Its a non-issue now.) What I'm saying is... I no longer have a 1600rpm idle, so something must be working. What I DO have now is an oscillation between about 780 and 900rpm at idle. This matches a nearly full point AFR change on the gauge and in TS. I'm not sure if this is a fuel table or ignition table issue (jumping between cells?) or possibly my completely untuned PID system. I copied your settings from the screenshot (2,2,2,100) and figured I'd start there. I'll keep working on it and continue to read.

I'll be honest and say that I didn't make my way completely though the "How Do I Tune My Idle With A Standalone?" guide last night. When my idle refused to cooperate I decided it was time to walk away before I got really frustrated.

Again, thanks for the reply, I look forward to working on this and getting it squared away!

Crap I'm retarded... found the EGO settings :rofl:

It looks like all the enrichments are functioning like they should (ASE, WUE, etc) and CL Idle appears to be working as intended.

I screwed with the idle a bit more and manually flattened out my VE table in the idle cells. I'm getting a 30rpm fluctuation but honestly, its almost rock solid @ 850rpm. If I load this thing with AC, it draaaaaags the idle down, but it does not quite die. When I turn the AC off, it REALLY jumps, then it dies. I'll have to play with it moar.

Time to go play with the VEAL some more

Did some more fiddling today. Idles mas bueno, AC still drags it way down, but it does not die anymore. With the AS on it will eventually creep back up to my 850-900RPM idle target, but the engine sounds like ass. AFRs will fluctuate but only with the AC on. With PS @ lock and headlights on, everything is tits. Give it AC and it goes to hell. I need to go visit Hustlers "35mpg" thread and see if I can find some nuggets of information in there, I seem to recall he had some similar issues.

It would be nice if this thing kicked up to about 1200-1300rpm like the factory ECU when the AC comes on. I believe this DIYPNP was built with AC in mind, so I'll have to do some more searching to find out how exactly that is implemented.

Reading the "MAT correction" thread and that might explain what is making my ARFs do goofy crap while playing with VEAL. It keeps adding, then removing, then adding, then removing... I need to see if I can create a MAT Correction gauge in TS to watch, or maybe find out if VEAL ignores MAT Correction... or I'll just cancel it out with GAIR like my hero Brainy. I'm probably having this issue because my IAT is PRE-Rotrex (I'm working on it...) and I'm still recirculating. Any time the bypass opens it dumps a bunch of that pre-heated air from the heatsink of a crossover tube into the intake tract right before the compressor near the IAT, and it continues to recycle through the blower. I have no doubt this slows airflow to a crawl near the filter and the sensor REALLY heats up, then the correction goes crazy and pulls fuel, then it gets lean, then it adds fuel... probably? :vash:

AFRs are close enough to not explodificate anything currently, I need to focus on getting the IAT moved somewhere more logical and/or getting my intercooler installed.

ARF Targets:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1339103815
Advance:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1339103815

Still can't get my stupid idle stable but it drives just fine with these numbers. Sticking this here so I can't loose it, and maybe get some criticism. I'm thinking about robbing that useless 225 row and adding more resolution somewhere else. Not sure if this will be beneficial or not, seeing as I'm not screwing with the spark map at all, other than at idle.

And before someone points is out, yes I need to fix that 19/1500 cell :lol: