Fast Forward Supercharger Kit
11-22-2017, 01:39 PM
#21
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 129
Total Cats: 11
I owned one too. My opinions differ from yours. Maybe it's because I've driven several properly set up and tuned FI Miata's and have the luxury of comparison?
When your only two criteria are: 1) it works 2) it's faster than a stock Miata.....Well, then in that case yeah, it's great.
When your only two criteria are: 1) it works 2) it's faster than a stock Miata.....Well, then in that case yeah, it's great.
Reply
0
0
11-22-2017, 01:50 PM
#22
SC's have their benefits, but turbos are faster, generally. I built a really nasty SC setup a couple years ago with the hopes of having so much power from a blower, that I'd be happy with it. Made about double the whp of a FFS kit (350-370whp). Turbos are where it's at, my car is now turbocharged. The only thing the SC did better was response and time to boost as it was instant before, now the turbo has to spool.
FFS is for someone who wants PNP, easy, reliable, but has low expectations for power and performance. His setup is designed to throw down 180-200whp reliably and they do that, but that's it. Pretty much any turbo setup can outperform the FFS in terms of power.
FFS is for someone who wants PNP, easy, reliable, but has low expectations for power and performance. His setup is designed to throw down 180-200whp reliably and they do that, but that's it. Pretty much any turbo setup can outperform the FFS in terms of power.
Reply
0
0
11-22-2017, 01:57 PM
#23
SC's have their benefits, but turbos are faster, generally. I built a really nasty SC setup a couple years ago with the hopes of having so much power from a blower, that I'd be happy with it. Made about double the whp of a FFS kit (350-370whp). Turbos are where it's at, my car is now turbocharged. The only thing the SC did better was response and time to boost as it was instant before, now the turbo has to spool.
FFS is for someone who wants PNP, easy, reliable, but has low expectations for power and performance. His setup is designed to throw down 180-200whp reliably and they do that, but that's it. Pretty much any turbo setup can outperform the FFS in terms of power.
FFS is for someone who wants PNP, easy, reliable, but has low expectations for power and performance. His setup is designed to throw down 180-200whp reliably and they do that, but that's it. Pretty much any turbo setup can outperform the FFS in terms of power.
FFS life is living in constant fear that you'll never come across a well-sorted SR20 turbo'd 1.6 NA at a stoplight.
Reply
0
0
11-22-2017, 01:59 PM
#24
Boost Czar
iTrader: (62)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,494
Total Cats: 4,080
I can't say I entirely hated my FFS. It was cool having the 2-3psi at 2500rpm for scooting around town. But once it heat soaked, it was garbage. And I never even tracked it or drove it hard. I can't imagine how badly it must get on a track where you're actually WOT for long periods of time.
Compared to a proper turbo setup it's just laughable.
Compared to a proper turbo setup it's just laughable.
Reply
0
0
11-28-2017, 01:33 PM
#28
I'm Miserable!
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 132
Total Cats: 10
Thanks for posting that thread. That was the last one I read before my purchase. I think the water injection solved the issue along with some 100 octane for tracking the car, if that is your desire. I saw the issue as solvable given the testing.
Reply
0
0
11-28-2017, 01:38 PM
#29
what about the people that required rebuilds after just a handful of track days because these units just can't handle proper track use? is that also a non-issue?
Last edited by 18psi; 11-28-2017 at 02:54 PM.
Reply
1
1
11-28-2017, 03:53 PM
#31
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Columbus, IN
Posts: 324
Total Cats: 37
I considered buying one at one point, and a big turnoff for me was the fact that you pay over $5000 for something will be worth about $500 as soon as it ships. The components you buy for a turbo kit have actual inherent value individually. The components that come with the FFS kit have nearly zero individual value, except for maybe the blower itself. Plus, you're paying the same money as you would for a top dollar turbo kit that could easily make over 350 hp on a built engine, for a system that tops out at 200 hp and it doesn't even have an intercooler or an ECU, not to mention the questionable thermodynamics involved with the 5th injector. Basically, you're paying about $4000 for his cast intake manifold. Just doesn't seem like a good value to me, even leaving aside the turbo vs super question.
Reply
1
1
11-28-2017, 06:03 PM
#32
Elite Member
iTrader: (16)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 1,647
Total Cats: 524
I considered buying one at one point, and a big turnoff for me was the fact that you pay over $5000 for something will be worth about $500 as soon as it ships. The components you buy for a turbo kit have actual inherent value individually. The components that come with the FFS kit have nearly zero individual value, except for maybe the blower itself. Plus, you're paying the same money as you would for a top dollar turbo kit that could easily make over 350 hp on a built engine, for a system that tops out at 200 hp and it doesn't even have an intercooler or an ECU, not to mention the questionable thermodynamics involved with the 5th injector. Basically, you're paying about $4000 for his cast intake manifold. Just doesn't seem like a good value to me, even leaving aside the turbo vs super question.
Reply
0
0
11-28-2017, 06:22 PM
#33
I'm Miserable!
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 132
Total Cats: 10
Best way to think your junk is adequate is to never compare it to anyone else's junk
so basically going to great lengths and spending significant money to fix a problem that shouldn't be there in the first place? ok I guess
what about the people that required rebuilds after just a handful of track days because these units just can't handle proper track use? is that also a non-issue?
so basically going to great lengths and spending significant money to fix a problem that shouldn't be there in the first place? ok I guess
what about the people that required rebuilds after just a handful of track days because these units just can't handle proper track use? is that also a non-issue?
That said, there are off the shelf turbo kits that will not withstand track use either. Whether it be inconel studs, v-bands, etc...some kits need to be beefed up to handle the increased heat tracking produces. Of course, there are kits that can handle frequent hpde and competition use.
In terms of "great lengths"...once again, I think you are exaggerating. Adding water/Meth is "great lengths" now? Swapping in an MS or using 100 octane is "great lengths"? Maybe if we were talking about swapping manifolds or blowers, I might agree. The mods above seem like standard fare when considering hard use.
Again, I street and autox my car. It fits within the intended scope of use for these kits.
Reply
0
0
11-28-2017, 06:48 PM
#35
I'm Miserable!
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 132
Total Cats: 10
Frankly, doesn't sound like this kit fits your needs.
Reply
0
0
11-28-2017, 09:26 PM
#38
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Columbus, IN
Posts: 324
Total Cats: 37
The lack of intercooler is inherent to the design of the kit; I don't think it's physically possible to intercool it. The blower is on the coldside, mounted directly to a special intake manifold; the air goes through the filter, through the blower, and directly into the intake...there's no way to route the charge air through an intercooler.
Enter the 5th injector. As I understand it, the main purpose of the 5th injector is to cool the air, supposedly eliminating the need for an intercooler. The extra fuel absorbs heat out of the charge air by evaporation (I think this may be oversimplifying it, but I don't feel like reviewing my thermo books to hammer out the details). Anywierd, there is some debate as to how effective this actually is; supposedly it's fine up to 200 hp, but it gets dicey above that.
I'm sure an MS could be made to run it, if you understand the circuitry well enough. Essentially, I think it would just be a 5v high/low signal telling the injector to open and close, using the crank or cam sensor for timing. However, now you've spent $6000 for 200 hp without the possibility of intercooling and no way to increase the power without potentially thwarting the jury-rigged cooling technique. Still seems like poor value to me.
***edit***
Vlad responded while I was typing. I'm sure there's a way to have a coldside, intercooled SC, but you would have to ditch the FFS manifold.
Reply
0
0
