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Old 07-07-2015, 12:32 PM   #1
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Default FFS Build, converting to MS.

I think I've finally given up on trying to have a simple ecu solution while being boosted.

Long story short the car has been very, very inconsistent, even without boost and power cards in the mix so I've decided that a full ecu will at least give me a better picture of what is going on and some safety margin in the process.

Engine setup
94 JDM bottom end
180psi compression
99 Head - port matched ex/in with exhaust porting.
MSM Intake Cam
JR Header/HighFlow/RB Exhaust
FFS old single injector with questionable porting ($1300 shipped...)
115mm Pulley - 12psi at redline
Currently 01 flowed injectors
AEM FPR
DW200 Fuel Pump
Devils Own Water Injection - .03gal nozzle pre blower - walmart -20 fluid
'power' cards
KnocksenseMS (not installed) - should I?
RX-7 550cc (not installed) - should I?

I'm in contact with Brain about an ECU, I've had a MSPNP1 with the previous NA motor.

My goal is to diagnose some issues i'm having with the car, eliminate the MAF and EGR etc, and mainly get even fuel distribution and more safety. Depending on complexity and cost I'd like to have the option to run flex fuel too.

I've tracked the car 4 or 5 times as it is and driven it moderately hard in the mountains but I'm always chasing something, watching the AFR's and generally feeling like I'm pushing my luck. I've grown tired of AFR's that change based on gear, load, heat and elevation, rich overrun bucking, lean spikes on tip in and plane terrible dyno behavior.

I'm not expecting HP, I wouldn't be surprised if it were less actually. Sketchy tunes have a way of making power after all. Consistency is my new goal.

Ultimately this is just my first dip into boost with this particular miata, if I don't like it ultimately I will just do another setup. I've had two UBER charged miata's in the past and I'm open to better solutions. Try them all, its fun!

Older engine bay shot



99 Head Rebuilt with MSM Cam




99 Head Exhaust Porting




Questionable porting by previous owner





It loves meth/needs it.



On Track

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Old 07-07-2015, 12:53 PM   #2
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Don't go MS on an FFS kit!!!!!!!!! You'll never make as much power!

MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - [NB] Can FFS work with megasquirt3?

Quote:
[email protected] - We have several kits running on MS ECU's. They make almost as much power as the standard stock ECU kits.
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Old 07-07-2015, 12:58 PM   #3
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Dump the RX7 injectors on someone else. Get the FlowForce EV14s from Trackspeed. RX8 Yellows if you're on a hardcore Ramen budget.
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Old 07-07-2015, 01:13 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoves View Post
Don't go MS on an FFS kit!!!!!!!!! You'll never make as much power!

MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - [NB] Can FFS work with megasquirt3?
was about to post this
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Old 07-07-2015, 01:52 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
was about to post this
Let's try and focus on reality.
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Old 07-07-2015, 05:04 PM   #6
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Blower porting is very light, looks like it was only to match the TB adapter. The output side of the blower is untouched. The screw holes indicate that the bearings were replaced by Magnusen.
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Old 07-07-2015, 05:28 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoves View Post
Don't go MS on an FFS kit!!!!!!!!! You'll never make as much power!

MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - [NB] Can FFS work with megasquirt3?
Holy crap! That FFS guy is retarded.

I'm not an m.net member, yet every time I'm referred over there I'm thoroughly entertained. Maybe I need to join.
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Old 07-07-2015, 06:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99mx5 View Post
Blower porting is very light, looks like it was only to match the TB adapter. The output side of the blower is untouched. The screw holes indicate that the bearings were replaced by Magnusen.
Thanks for the input on the bearings. If you look a bit closer the outlet of the blower on the left side does actually have some porting and there is very minor work elsewhere.

It makes decent boost, sounds healthy and has fresh a fresh front end rebuild.
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Old 07-07-2015, 06:11 PM   #9
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What ECU do you guys think I should go with?

MS2PNP Enhanced or a MSPNP Pro

I have a real hard time telling all the ECU variations apart.

Flex Fuel Compatible
AC Support
AEM UEGO Input
Water Injection Control Ideally
Barometric Pressure sensor
Good running basemap
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Old 07-10-2015, 11:43 AM   #10
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<p>
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre94R View Post
What ECU do you guys think I should go with? MS2PNP Enhanced or a MSPNP Pro I have a real hard time telling all the ECU variations apart. Flex Fuel Compatible AC Support AEM UEGO Input Water Injection Control Ideally Barometric Pressure sensor Good running basemap
I believe you emailed me.&nbsp; MS3 hands down -- It has amazing flex fuel support, and progressive water/meth injection support, sophisticated A/C control as general features.&nbsp; Specifically the MSPNP-Pro has an onboard baro sensor, and base tunes were developed by running several cars on our in-house dyno.&nbsp;</p>
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Old 07-10-2015, 01:29 PM   #11
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<p>
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
<img alt="" src="images/smilies/gay.gif" title="Giggle" /> was about to post this
</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I just read that entire thread...&nbsp;<img src="http://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.miataturbo.net-vbulletin/2000x820/80-undefined_bec07508cef69923b40bef0074709df6f3c5ebf8 .png" title="" />&nbsp;</p>
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Old 03-23-2016, 05:28 PM   #12
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I wasn't the OP of that other miserable thread.

Back to reality.
So I finally bit the bullet and got a MSPNP Pro for the car.

Setup:
MSPNP Pro
550cc Injectors
115mm Pulley (13psi)
Water/Meth 80/20 - walmart washer fluid -20
.05 GPH Pre Blower
.02 GPH Post Blower
GM Flex Fuel Sensor
Bosch Knock Sensor

Just started it the other day, started up perfect first time with no leaks, set the timing and it running better than it has in awhile at least at idle.
Running the car with no belt (no boost) the car feels very slow and soft, I haven't done ANYTHING to the base map beyond MAF Delete/Injector Size Change.

I'm still getting up to speed on the MS end and most likely will take it to a pro.




Fresh Setup





Passenger Side





Driver Side
Attached Thumbnails
FFS Build, converting to MS.-80-img_8270_f211ffa7783c69aceceecec11a75725e8397f14f.jpg   FFS Build, converting to MS.-80-img_8271_262f80d58b31233e5ba30c2f6e16784710ff7de8.jpg   FFS Build, converting to MS.-80-img_8272_51707d50dff8ac2db960f687f0b799e81159ffb7.jpg  
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Old 03-23-2016, 08:26 PM   #13
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It looks like you undid your coolant reroute. ??
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Old 03-24-2016, 10:39 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
It looks like you undid your coolant reroute. ??
It leaked and didn't fit well with the blower setup, there just isn't enough room on the passenger side.

When I pull the motor eventually I will swap it to the exhaust side.

It's a street car at this point so it isn't as big of a deal.
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Old 03-24-2016, 10:58 AM   #15
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good choice on EMS despite the Yo-yo master's warnings.
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Old 03-24-2016, 11:33 AM   #16
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Next step!

Autotune the car NA?

I haven't driven an NA miata in a long time but the car seems EXTREMELY slow.

Here is how slow the car is! Painful (no boost)

AFR's - base map, no tuning, same gear "pull"
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Old 03-24-2016, 01:20 PM   #17
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I would expect it to be even slower than normal trying to wheeze through a stationary SC.
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Old 03-24-2016, 05:45 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
I would expect it to be even slower than normal trying to wheeze through a stationary SC.
That's always been my theory as well, the bypass is wired open to allow more air flow.
The thing is I rode in a similar setup at VIR that had removed his belt, the car felt fine, just like a normal NA car. I also spoke with Tom yesterday and he said he always dyno's cars without the belt first and they are within a couple HP of stock.

Either way my car feels like the timing is retarded or it's sucking through a straw.

New post to follow...
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Old 03-24-2016, 06:17 PM   #19
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Long one...

I'm going to call today a sad comedy of errors, I honestly can't believe the car made it back home.

So I innocently decided to take my lunch break to pick up a low mile radiator fan at the junk yard (because that's what you do when you have an old miata).

It's pretty far away and I get there and they say its at the other location, closer to my house naturally. No biggie, its nice out and I have taken the opportunity to run autotune on the car.
I get back in the car and it doesn't start well and barely idles, I keep trying...sounds like the fuel pump is running, cut the car off completely and it just keeps running. I jump out to pull the battery cable to stop it and see it's not the fuel pump but my water injection system, running full blast!

It's pumped nearly half the tank at that point into a non running car, filling the intake manifold!
Luckily the fuse is close by and I pull it. It would appear the pressure switch on the system just randomly failed, it was set for 5psi and capped with no air getting to it. Just random bad luck.

Fortunately I have some minor tools because I don't drive this car without them. I remove the intake and drain out a very small amount of liquid...the other 1/2 gallon of liquid is in the intake manifold..
I pull the water meth hose from it and it starts to slowly drip out, drip, not run, drip. I jack up the car on loose gravel to 'assist'. I wait about an hour trying other ways to get it out and then decide to pull the plugs and suck/blow it out that way since there really isn't a good way to drain it, period.
That sort of works, cylinder 4 grabs a good bit and spews it out, the rest remain clear. The intake sits at an angle leaning away from the head which was my saving grace, the vast majority of the liquid was pooled up on the far wall, I know this because I did some

Eventually the junk yard guys tell me I have to leave, no jacking up cars in the lot, don't want them to get confused with junk cars I suppose...

I reluctantly seal it up, knowing there is still liquid in the system. I get it started and slowly let it stumble it's way through the rest, I dip the gas to suck in hopefully manageable amounts and it works! The car runs rough for awhile but eventually clears itself out, it stumbles up the exit hill before a nice painful ride out a cow grate that rattles the car pretty hard.

Next... I get some gas and go through a rough intersection and it sounds like rocks are falling out of the car, I was on gravel so I figured no biggie. A car stops down the road to turn and as I go to slowly accelerate away a very loud part falls from the car, the car behind me gets hit by something but doesn't notice, I figure it was some tool I left in the engine bay. Because I'm cheap, nervous and curious I go back for it... in the busy road I see my supercharger mounting support bar, apparently it vibrated free... I found 1 bolt too.
Then I get to drive the rest of the way home with no cooling fan (it's hot at this point and busy) and a heavy blower being supported by tiny intake manifold bolts.

Made it!

Suffice to say, the car isn't ready for prime time, I'm going to go through and recheck all the torques and figure out what to do about the water meth controller.





About a 1/2 a gallon...





#4!





It's all your fault!
Attached Thumbnails
FFS Build, converting to MS.-80-img_8300_611e353c267aa351bb8def4f26a7d5b034125cc0.jpg   FFS Build, converting to MS.-80-img_8303_1832703f68013462f7149dff238fa25395f743f5.jpg   FFS Build, converting to MS.-80-img_8306_05cbe7c2f19ccd2d2a16f087639c47e879f20ee1.jpg   FFS Build, converting to MS.-80-img_8300_611e353c267aa351bb8def4f26a7d5b034125cc0.jpg   FFS Build, converting to MS.-80-img_8303_1832703f68013462f7149dff238fa25395f743f5.jpg  

FFS Build, converting to MS.-80-img_8306_05cbe7c2f19ccd2d2a16f087639c47e879f20ee1.jpg  
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Old 03-24-2016, 06:26 PM   #20
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Yeah, you might just want to start today over.
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