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Old 03-05-2014, 05:47 PM   #41
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Ignorance is not a defense.
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:48 PM   #42
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Nobody likes the tuna here.
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Old 03-05-2014, 05:50 PM   #43
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Nobody knows what the definition of perfect is.
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Old 03-05-2014, 06:05 PM   #44
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If 150whp is your goal, FI is not the solution. I/H/E + E85 on an 01+ motor should be plenty for 150whp. Hell Emilio made 137whp I think with a crappy 94 head.
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:42 PM   #45
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If 150whp is your goal, FI is not the solution. I/H/E + E85 on an 01+ motor should be plenty for 150whp. Hell Emilio made 137whp I think with a crappy 94 head.
I don't understand why people are insistent on spending more money for the same rwhp, the kit was bought for 600, ms3 built myself is 350, an ebay intercooler 100 MAYBE, and an all aluminum radiator 250 if I want to get the nicer mishimoto.

I'm spending 1300 on a setup that will push 150 easily and have the ability to easily set back to stock and go turbo later if wanted.

But two folks have said I should just spend the same if not close ten times that "if [my] goal is just 150".
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:27 AM   #46
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I don't understand why people are insistent on spending more money for the same rwhp, the kit was bought for 600, ms3 built myself is 350, an ebay intercooler 100 MAYBE, and an all aluminum radiator 250 if I want to get the nicer mishimoto.

I'm spending 1300 on a setup that will push 150 easily and have the ability to easily set back to stock and go turbo later if wanted.

But two folks have said I should just spend the same if not close ten times that "if [my] goal is just 150".

If you think it'll cost you $13k to make 150rwhp n/a on these cars, then well.... that explains the vehement defense of an awful supercharger.

I'm also curious as to why you think that your supercharger makes it easier to go to a turbo setup than the n/a 150whp route.

The best turbo motors started out by being the best n/a motors.
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Old 03-06-2014, 11:18 AM   #47
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Emilio's intake is nothing other than a silicon U pipe and a filter. Call it $50 if we're generous. $500 for an RB header. The MS3 you built covers the tune. Throw in some 305cc supra injectors for another $100 or a cheap FPR to get enough fuel from the stock injectors from E85.

You'd probably end up with (a little) less torque, but it would be more reliable than a supercharger. It can probably be done for cheaper than 1300.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "NA IS BEST!" But for your goals it sure seems like it. That's the formula a bunch of the track guys here have been using with great success.
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Old 03-06-2014, 12:17 PM   #48
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Not to mention the fact that NA 150hp is going to be much faster than poopercharged 150hp.
Not all horsepower is created equal.
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Old 03-06-2014, 12:34 PM   #49
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You can save money on the radiator. If you do a reroute (which you need to do), OEM is plenty for 200HP even on track in TX.
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Old 03-06-2014, 12:54 PM   #50
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Emilio's intake is nothing other than a silicon U pipe and a filter. Call it $50 if we're generous. $500 for an RB header. The MS3 you built covers the tune. Throw in some 305cc supra injectors for another $100 or a cheap FPR to get enough fuel from the stock injectors from E85.

You'd probably end up with (a little) less torque, but it would be more reliable than a supercharger. It can probably be done for cheaper than 1300.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying "NA IS BEST!" But for your goals it sure seems like it. That's the formula a bunch of the track guys here have been using with great success.
"We blueprinted an NB2 motor with Supertech 11.0:1 83.5mm pistons that were shaved down to create 10.5:1 compression. Supertech valve springs, SCAT forged rods and ACL race bearings. The rest is 100% OEM parts."

I haven't checked the pricing on those pistons, rods, or bearings. But that's already more than a little silicon, filters and u pipes.

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Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
If you think it'll cost you $13k to make 150rwhp n/a on these cars, then well.... that explains the vehement defense of an awful supercharger.

I'm also curious as to why you think that your supercharger makes it easier to go to a turbo setup than the n/a 150whp route.

The best turbo motors started out by being the best n/a motors.
I was referring to iantboyd's suggestion of a build.

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Originally Posted by iantboyd View Post
Where I dug into the build and found.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Creamsaw View Post
Cams are 264 / 264 10mm Lift Maruha's
Supertech Single Valve Springs
Supertech Titanium Retainers
Mazdaspeed SUBS
Toda Adjustable Cam Gears
New OEM Valve Seals
OEM Head Gasket
TWM 45mm Individual Throttle Bodies
36 lb Fuel Injectors
ITG Sausage filter and backing plate
Hondata Intake Manifold Gasket
Adaptronics Standalone ECU
Maruha VP Race Header
Racing Beat Resonated Race Pipe 2.375"
Jet's Integral Kobe Muffler 2.375"
Garage Star Alternator and Waterpump Pulleys
6.2 lb Spec Billet Pressure Plate
7.1 lb Fidanza Flywheel
1.3 lb Clutchnet Unsprung Street Disk
Golden Eagle Vacuum Manifold
Chikara Motorsports Oil Catch Can
Koyo 52mm Radiator
Koyo 1.3 Bar Radiator Cap
Mishimoto Slim Fan
Samco Radiator Hoses
Flyin Miata Oil Cooler Kit
Beatrush Radiator Cooling Panel

This seems like a little more than 700 dollars.

Edit: More like "Ball Park Total: 9245.00 give or take"

I'm not looking for build advice, I am looking for answers to questions in the original post.
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Old 03-06-2014, 12:56 PM   #51
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You can save money on the radiator. If you do a reroute (which you need to do), OEM is plenty for 200HP even on track in TX.
Yeah, I got the parts to do it, just haven't had enough garage time yet. This is my DD for a few more months.
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Old 03-06-2014, 12:59 PM   #52
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The point is... you can get 150whp for far less than what Quinn spent on his ITB 172whp motor.

The idea is that you take the most cost effective portions of both of those builds and make your 150whp motor. And again, if you spend $13k doing it, you should probably quit cars.

You can't compare your setup to Emilio's. Emilio's was put together to survive a huge amount of time on the track. Your car would puke its guts out far before that setup even blinked. Make sense?
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Old 03-06-2014, 01:19 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
The point is... you can get 150whp for far less than what Quinn spent on his ITB 172whp motor.

The idea is that you take the most cost effective portions of both of those builds and make your 150whp motor. And again, if you spend $13k doing it, you should probably quit cars.

You can't compare your setup to Emilio's. Emilio's was put together to survive a huge amount of time on the track. Your car would puke its guts out far before that setup even blinked. Make sense?
Makes perfect sense, which is why I was only asking three questions in the original post.

I know I need to work on cooling, I need a stand alone system to manage fueling, timing, etc, and I need a newer clutch as mine is starting to slip.

And who is satisfied with just 150rwhp? I know I won't be for long, but if I jump to 200 I'll wrap my car around a tree. Baby steps, the more I wrench the more I learn. The more I learn the more I have fun!
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Old 03-06-2014, 01:23 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creamsaw View Post
Makes perfect sense, which is why I was only asking three questions in the original post.

I know I need to work on cooling, I need a stand alone system to manage fueling, timing, etc, and I need a newer clutch as mine is starting to slip.

And who is satisfied with just 150rwhp? I know I won't be for long, but if I jump to 200 I'll wrap my car around a tree. Baby steps, the more I wrench the more I learn. The more I learn the more I have fun!
Two answers:

1) True story
2) depends on the situation.


Clear, huh?
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Old 03-06-2014, 01:44 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creamsaw View Post
"We blueprinted an NB2 motor with Supertech 11.0:1 83.5mm pistons that were shaved down to create 10.5:1 compression. Supertech valve springs, SCAT forged rods and ACL race bearings. The rest is 100% OEM parts."

I haven't checked the pricing on those pistons, rods, or bearings. But that's already more than a little silicon, filters and u pipes.
And all of those are needed to survive endurance racing. .5mm overbore pistons and a .5 CR increase won't add a significant amount of power, and the rods, bearings, and springs are for longevity. You can get within a hp or 2 with a bone stock NB2 engine. It will be cheaper, easier to maintain, and (much) more reliable than the M45.

It just sounds like you're moving the goalposts to justify your SC purchase. If your goal is higher than 150whp, the M45 is the wrong tool to get you there. If your goal really is 150whp, you can do that on a stock NB2 engine with bolt-ons. If you just like to hear the whine of the SC then say that and stop trying to convince yourself that you're doing this the best way. We'll stop bothering you. Well maybe
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Old 03-06-2014, 01:59 PM   #56
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And all of those are needed to survive endurance racing. .5mm overbore pistons and a .5 CR increase won't add a significant amount of power, and the rods, bearings, and springs are for longevity. You can get within a hp or 2 with a bone stock NB2 engine. It will be cheaper, easier to maintain, and (much) more reliable than the M45.

It just sounds like you're moving the goalposts to justify your SC purchase. If your goal is higher than 150whp, the M45 is the wrong tool to get you there. If your goal really is 150whp, you can do that on a stock NB2 engine with bolt-ons. If you just like to hear the whine of the SC then say that and stop trying to convince yourself that you're doing this the best way. We'll stop bothering you. Well maybe
My goal is to have fun with my car. I think the SC is fun, I want to make more power which is fun. And no y'all won't stop bothering me cause I'm so super cool.

I see you got Reverant's MS3, I can't find a site for his stuff how much did the basic cost? I just see his different versions and compatibility no prices and such.
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Old 03-06-2014, 02:00 PM   #57
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Prices change. You'll need to PM him.
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Old 03-06-2014, 02:05 PM   #58
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Done, now I need to pretend like I'm working!
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Old 03-19-2014, 02:41 PM   #59
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You can save money on the radiator. If you do a reroute (which you need to do), OEM is plenty for 200HP even on track in TX.
I thought the reroute was a bad idea on 2001+ cars. Since they changed the head gasket to reduce flow to cylinders 1/2 for those years.

I know you can do the reroute if you change you head gasket to one from a 99-00 car.
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Old 03-19-2014, 04:31 PM   #60
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I thought the reroute was a bad idea on 2001+ cars. Since they changed the head gasket to reduce flow to cylinders 1/2 for those years.

I know you can do the reroute if you change you head gasket to one from a 99-00 car.
OP has a 1994 engine, right?

Anyways, I would always do the reroute. Just makes the cooling system work so much better. And, yes, revert to an earlier headgasket if you have an unmolested OEM 2001+ 1.8.
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