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Old 07-17-2015, 12:11 AM   #1
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Default KRAFTWERKS Rotrex Issue

Father n Law bought a complete Rotrex kit from Kraftwerks that came with everything. I would like to add first off that the instructions.... HA ! Might as well not been there with a total of 12 pictures "maybe", and literature that looks to have been written by 3rd grader. So here we go, Im not familiar with this piggy back supercard fuel control garbage, was always told it was way inferior Compared to stand alone so i never bothered and it seems to be the case. Got everything installed, Injectors, intercooler, the works. Went for a test drive, and the cruise afrs are strange, rapidly fluctuates from 14-15.8. Went going into boos,t fuel is pulled and car goes way lean (18 afr) then violently swings to 12.1 afr. Which indicates to me that the factory ecu is fighting whats going on to try to keep a 14.7 afr then defaults into closed loop. Fuel card has power n ground and a vacume source but clearly doesnt work. Have not been able to get in touch with kraftwerks yet as i sat on hold for over an hour today.
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Old 07-17-2015, 01:51 AM   #2
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<p>
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Originally Posted by jmuse8482 View Post
Father n Law bought a complete Rotrex kit from Kraftwerks that came with everything. I would like to add first off that the instructions.... HA ! Might as well not been there with a total of 12 pictures &quot;maybe&quot;, and literature that looks to have been written by 3rd grader. So here we go, Im not familiar with this piggy back supercard fuel control garbage, was always told it was way inferior Compared to stand alone so i never bothered and it seems to be the case. Got everything installed, Injectors, intercooler, the works. Went for a test drive, and the cruise afrs are strange, rapidly fluctuates from 14-15.8. Went going into boos,t fuel is pulled and car goes way lean (18 afr) then violently swings to 12.1 afr. Which indicates to me that the factory ecu is fighting whats going on to try to keep a 14.7 afr then defaults into closed loop. Fuel card has power n ground and a vacume source but clearly doesnt work. Have not been able to get in touch with kraftwerks yet as i sat on hold for over an hour today.
</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>if the lean AFR is a split second it sounds like you have an accel enrichment issue. I'm not sure if the piggyback they provide has a way to correct for lean tip in</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
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Old 07-17-2015, 01:52 AM   #3
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You pretty much already figured it out: stock ecu is fighting the piggy. Needs o2 clamp probably (or the one that's supposedly there isn't working)

Get a proper ecu
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Old 07-17-2015, 02:46 AM   #4
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Get a proper ecu
This, don't waste time messing with the piggy back. The car will be incredibly smooth once it has a proper tune.
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Old 07-17-2015, 07:58 AM   #5
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Yes yes and yes, I realise all of this with the proper ecu.. But none the less, by the reviews, they seem to work fine , but how many people are actually running a wide band and or are just driving them like this. Point is, as garbage as piggy back it is, could have gotten FM's VooDoo II kit and paid less but more work to install. But at least they work out the box and have instructions a 3 year old could follow. Even if i was to get another ECU from Rev, Miatas at the GAP is next week.... There is no way to get it in time.

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Old 07-17-2015, 11:32 AM   #6
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Fluctuations between about 14 and 16 under cruise or idle is normal AFAIK. Most cars of 90sish vintage cycle in that range. They don't just sit at stoich.

Fuel is not being 'pulled' when you tip in, rather the system is not reacting fast enough to the sudden increase in airflow caused by the Rotrex. It then wakes up and gets you down to a 12ish AFR under boost.

None of this sounds like an ECU 'fighting' anything. Its just how piggys are.

No clue how to solve that tip-in issue, but if its not causing detonation its as 'fine' as you are likely to get.

Chances are that hundred or thousands of people run like this all the time and do fine, they just don't have widebands to see what's going on moment to moment.
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Old 07-17-2015, 11:43 AM   #7
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Fluctuations between about 14 and 16 under cruise or idle is normal AFAIK. Most cars of 90sish vintage cycle in that range. They don't just sit at stoich.

Fuel is not being 'pulled' when you tip in, rather the system is not reacting fast enough to the sudden increase in airflow caused by the Rotrex. It then wakes up and gets you down to a 12ish AFR under boost.

None of this sounds like an ECU 'fighting' anything. Its just how piggys are.

No clue how to solve that tip-in issue, but if its not causing detonation its as 'fine' as you are likely to get.

Chances are that hundred or thousands of people run like this all the time and do fine, they just don't have widebands to see what's going on moment to moment.
If this is the case, then OMG this a garbage or im just spoiled by my Standalone. Only thing to do i guess is to call kraftwerks when they open and see what they say... Worst comes to worst i mighy have to by an o2 clamp from FM just to get by for the moment providing this supercard is actually working.
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Old 07-17-2015, 11:55 AM   #8
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you wanna call a GARBAGE company who doesn't even care to make proper instructions to install a 4,000 dollar kit and ask them what they think? LOL

Go read Gordon's (EO2K) thread about how awesome Kraftwerks is, hahaha, I'd rate them on par with the shadiest ebay sellers/distributors. THey suck
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Old 07-17-2015, 11:58 AM   #9
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you wanna call a GARBAGE company who doesn't even care to make proper instructions to install a 4,000 dollar kit and ask them what they think? LOL

Good point...Ha LOL..... They could have at least put a picture in the instructions of me getting [email protected]#$&D
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Old 07-17-2015, 12:14 PM   #10
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Going this lean isn't "normal" for a piggyback, at least for not as long as this thing is doing it.

Garbage company or not, it's not working and you need to get on the horn with them to overnight you another box and/or an o2 clamp.
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Old 07-17-2015, 12:21 PM   #11
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Going this lean isn't "normal" for a piggyback, at least for not as long as this thing is doing it.

Garbage company or not, it's not working and you need to get on the horn with them to overnight you another box and/or an o2 clamp.

I just called Kraftwerks amd they said they have done many installs which work fine... Hmmmmm.. And also told me that they need a picture of the box and a reciept of course before they can warranty it.... And refused to over night it unless i paid for it to be... They offered absolutely no help.. Bunch of *** Hats
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Old 07-17-2015, 12:22 PM   #12
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Garbage company or not, it's not working and you need to get on the horn with them to overnight you another box and/or an o2 clamp.
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... They offered absolutely no help.. Bunch of *** Hats
welp...
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Old 07-17-2015, 12:25 PM   #13
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Bet a chargeback would get their attention.
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Old 07-17-2015, 03:07 PM   #14
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After talking to Good-Win-Racing were the kit was bought, finally i have some sort of communication with Kraftwerks.... Apparrently, they say that every car is different, and no Supercard will.work the same on one car is the other, so they tell me to remove the cover and adjust the pot till its right... Funny this wasnt in the instructions.... We will see.....
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Old 07-17-2015, 06:07 PM   #15
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Interesting. I got my Kraftworks kit up and running using the fuel card they supplied. Worked fine on the street for 2 weeks. Took it to the track and on the second lap of the first session, it apparently went super lean and blew the engine. Now I'm replacing the engine and putting on a Megasquirt 3. Should have done that in the first place.
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Old 07-17-2015, 06:13 PM   #16
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Interesting. I got my Kraftworks kit up and running using the fuel card they supplied. Worked fine on the street for 2 weeks. Took it to the track and on the second lap of the first session, it apparently went super lean and blew the engine. Now I'm replacing the engine and putting on a Megasquirt 3. Should have done that in the first place.
WOW

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Old 07-17-2015, 06:14 PM   #17
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Interesting. I got my Kraftworks kit up and running using the fuel card they supplied. Worked fine on the street for 2 weeks. Took it to the track and on the second lap of the first session, it apparently went super lean and blew the engine. Now I'm replacing the engine and putting on a Megasquirt 3. Should have done that in the first place.
Do me a favor, if you have already taking yours apart and you have access to the super card, take the 4 screws out of the case and pull the top off and take a picture of the card and post it
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Old 07-17-2015, 06:37 PM   #18
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Well after taking the lid off this damn **** box, i found that it does actually have an adjustment POT... But according to Kraftworks, since its a newer version, it only has 1, unlike the previous which had 2. The older version had 1 for "Overall enrichment" and another for "boost". This newer one has only 1 for "boost" and a preset "Overall". Not that anyone who has purchased this kit before has ever known they have had any control what so ever since the cheesy instructions dont even tell you, so even if you did know, now you have even less. So, the single POT is numbered 1-10... The higher the #, the more fuel you get. Ha ! Here is what really happens..... : it will not (WILL NOT) adjust for anything but boost, and its lazy at doing this.... the more you adjust it, the richer your going to see your afr's. So if the POT is set to #9, you will see roughly a 9.5 [email protected] So not only does it richen under boost with adjustment of the POT, it also does it quicker. You cant separate the 2. So before you spend 4k because you think its the easy button, think 2wice.

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Old 07-18-2015, 02:59 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by jmuse8482 View Post
Well after taking the lid off this damn **** box, i found that it does actually have an adjustment POT... But according to Kraftworks, since its a newer version, it only has 1, unlike the previous which had 2. The older version had 1 for "Overall enrichment" and another for "boost". This newer one has only 1 for "boost" and a preset "Overall". Not that anyone who has purchased this kit before has ever known they have had any control what so ever since the cheesy instructions dont even tell you, so even if you did know, now you have even less. So, the single POT is numbered 1-10... The higher the #, the more fuel you get. Ha ! Here is what really happens..... : it will not (WILL NOT) adjust for anything but boost, and its lazy at doing this.... the more you adjust it, the richer your going to see your afr's. So if the POT is set to #9, you will see roughly a 9.5 [email protected] So not only does it richen under boost with adjustment of the POT, it also does it quicker. You cant separate the 2. So before you spend 4k because you think its the easy button, think 2wice.
tl;dr get proper engine management.
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Old 07-18-2015, 03:06 PM   #20
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We established that right away. We also established right away that the timing of doing that is impossible.

Not his vehicle, not his say.

Have a anyway.
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