Now that this section is here, I am going to ask the impossible - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 02-18-2008, 10:30 AM   #1
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Default Now that this section is here, I am going to ask the impossible

Ok, here's the situation...and I am sure I am not the first to ask this.

I bought an existing M45 NA miata. It is well setup and has done very well in the couple of years I have owned it and tracked it. The competition has stepped up their game though, and I am being eaten alive on the larger tracks. The time has come for more power, and probably less weight (but I have a 2300 lbs minimum).

The M45 setup has been dead reliable, but I am also running fairly low boost (6 PSI). I know that I am making substantial less power than others. I know that many here will say sell it and get the Turbo, or a 1.8 with the MP62, but I would like to weigh my options on the M45. I am not looking for huge power. I am figuring that the 170 WHP is a good target.

So what are the thoughts here?

Thanks.
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Old 02-18-2008, 10:46 AM   #2
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I am SC guy, but will be the 1st to say "BUY A TURBO". If the car is primarily a track car, you can't beat a turbo. If you autocross, that's another story.

I went SC because my car is used 90% of the time for autocross. If I were only using the car for track events, it would have been turbo-ed.

As for the M45...you probably already know. If you start pushing it to its limits, your reliability goes down the drain. You will spend a bunch of money only to be happy for a short time, guaranteed!

Sell the M45 to a M-netter and jump on the turbo train. You can build a DIY turbo set up for close to what you sell the M45 for.
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Old 02-18-2008, 12:22 PM   #3
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The BEGI-S kits with an IC would be a great route to take as well. So keep that in mind.
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Old 02-18-2008, 12:32 PM   #4
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If I were you I'd sell the m45, and build a DIY setup for the 1.6. You don't need a motor swap to make 170-200whp. You could reach your goal with the m45, but it would be a battle. IMO either do a M62 setup or a turbo setup. Or put a 20# bottle in the back and dial in however many extra HP you want.
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Old 02-18-2008, 12:42 PM   #5
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Ugh, bloomin turbofanboys :P

my opinion, stick with the 45 and dependant on budget add a good FMIC i.e. the TDR one. Or fit WI, (or both!)

then fit a larger crank overlay pully, and possibly a smaller nose pully.

that sort of setup is run by a guy I know here and it's 200+fwhp

reliability shouldn't be an issue if you don't skrimp and properly set the system up
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Old 02-18-2008, 01:28 PM   #6
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Why don't you post your entire setup for us... that way we can see if there's any room to grow with what you've got now.

I assume you're still on the stock ECU?
Have you considered Megasquirt?

Lotsa guys already done the homework for you and have maps ready to load up. You can do it for about $400 since you don't need EBC... and LC1's are down to $190. No sense in turning up the boost now if you can't tune.

The BegiS kit and a Magasquirt is currently the hot ticket for an initial purchase, but if you wanted to make it easier, keep the M45, purchase the big-boost kit, larger injectors, and a Megasquirt+LC1 and you'd probably be in the 175-180whp range.
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Old 02-18-2008, 10:06 PM   #7
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I basically have the out of the box Sebring (before the JR) M45 1.6 setup. This includes the AFPR, Timing retard, and W 190 Pump. As you can see it's a basic setup that isn't delivering much power, but like I said..it's been dead reliable.
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Old 02-18-2008, 10:14 PM   #8
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I have been there. I had a 170 ish rwhp JR SC, with a FMIC, pushing 8-9 PSI. Once you put on a smaller nose pulley, you will begin to have reliability problems, due to the belt slipping and slinging dust everywhere. Add an FMIC to get the intake temps under control and your idle and drivability will go to hell in a handbasket. You will be much better off with a BEGI S, if throttle response is what youre after get the 2554.... And I have always been an SC guy at heart too, love that blower whine but for me it is just not worth it.
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Old 02-19-2008, 11:29 AM   #9
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The problem with the M45 is the limited room to grow. Even when you have done some of the "expensive" mods -- porting the blower, coating it, adding both water and an IC, you can get 14psi out of it, but you are still only looking @ around 180 at the wheels. I buddy of mine, is running a JR AW IC + Water, plus stupid small pulley on a 1.8, and a full link with big injectors. Car is wicked for an autox car.... problem is that it's not the best for a full track since the AW will heat soak. Plus, it would be much better to have started with a MP62 based kit....

Add TDR + Big throttle body (so you can get the IAC on the back of the blower), you'll get a much better (closer to stock idle, but nothin' is perfect).... and you can get a 6-rib which elminates the belt slip issues, etc....

If you want a blower, a 62 is definately a better place to start. <G>

That said, if you want a track car, a turbo is good, since normally you are a/a IC + you have good choices in management.... But you should consider as part of it, all the supporting upgrades, oil cooler, and also I would consider the coolant re-route. <G>

Dave,
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Old 02-19-2008, 11:34 AM   #10
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I would do FFS hardware only, MS and call it a day
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Old 02-19-2008, 11:45 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki047 View Post
I would do FFS hardware only, MS and call it a day
1.6L
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Old 02-19-2008, 12:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhoward1 View Post
1.6L

http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers....2684#post12684
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Old 02-19-2008, 12:04 PM   #13
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I've been in a few 1.6 cars with 1.8 transplants and the 62's installed. Worked great. There are a few things to consider, like the TPS etc... but a lot of that could be eliminated with the MS or some other full ECU swap....

But you can get big powa too... one car I believe was in the 240ish range IIRC....

The best thing to consider is the M45 doesn't have the head room, so you can do the mods, but the hp/$ can seem not worth it after a point.......

Dave,
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Old 02-19-2008, 12:29 PM   #14
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If you have a 1.6 you trust stick with it. Cheaper to come by too
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Old 02-25-2008, 10:36 AM   #15
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Old 02-25-2008, 10:38 AM   #16
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I've been in a few 1.6 cars with 1.8 transplants and the 62's installed. Worked great. There are a few things to consider, like the TPS etc... but a lot of that could be eliminated with the MS or some other full ECU swap....

But you can get big powa too... one car I believe was in the 240ish range IIRC....

The best thing to consider is the M45 doesn't have the head room, so you can do the mods, but the hp/$ can seem not worth it after a point.......

Dave,
One of the main reasons I am looking for more power is two of my main competitors are running that 1.8 MP62's setups and they are killing me on the longer tracks. I would prefer to stick with my current 1.6. It seems to be almost bullet proof (now that I have cursed myself).
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Old 02-25-2008, 11:33 AM   #17
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You've got two basic options. Let me see:

#1: Keep the M45.
Upgrade to big-boost kit.
Devil's Own water injection instead of IC so you don't have the pressure drop.
Get Megasquirt and injectors.
I see 175whp possible for about $1000, or $1500 w/MSpNp
Belt problems (there are things that will help with this).

#2: Ditch M45 for something else.
MP62 kit from FFS w/MS and injectors (see fourwhls). I think 210whp for low $3k range.
Turbo=Begi"S" w/Megasquirt for 170whp. Add an intercooler or WaterInjections for an easy [email protected] [email protected] Do like I do... daily driven at wategate pressure, with a dash switch to engage EBC for the track.
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Old 02-25-2008, 11:38 AM   #18
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looks like the forum died, they just got a mp62 1.6L coldside dynoed and ready for production...

just don't use their fueling and ICing solution.

Originally Posted by Tom @ Fast Forward
It does appear to run a touch rich above 6000 RPM. That could be easily due to the addition of a torque converter to the 'load' on the engine as the PC-Pro computes fuel required based on RPM, Boost and load. Clutches don't have any 'slip'.

comments like these should scare you away from even buying the hardware.
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Old 02-25-2008, 07:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
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that sort of setup is run by a guy I know here and it's 200+fwhp
there is something wrong with your friend's miata if he is measuring 200+ HP at the front wheels.
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Old 02-25-2008, 07:07 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkmage View Post
there is something wrong with your friend's miata if he is measuring 200+ HP at the front wheels.
fwhp is also know as flywheel horsepower.
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