water to air intercoolers
Hey all, I stumbled across an old water to air intercooler setup that jackson racing used to sell, and I see that KenneBell used to offer a supercharger setup with a liquid to air intercooler for Miata's. But I don't see anyone using them or offering them anymore. Is there any reason why nobody uses them?
Jim |
Cause air to air is cheap and efficient, and I will go as much as to say better.
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water to air adds at least 4 moar failure point over air to air!
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Originally Posted by jimj64
(Post 559594)
Hey all, I stumbled across an old water to air intercooler setup that jackson racing used to sell, and I see that KenneBell used to offer a supercharger setup with a liquid to air intercooler for Miata's. But I don't see anyone using them or offering them anymore. Is there any reason why nobody uses them?
Jim |
In the case of superchargers, wouldn't they be more effective though? Not necessarily more efficient, I'm thinking in terms of throttled volume. One of the problems (if you want to call it that) with adding an air to air intercooler to a supercharged engine is increasing the throttled volume, hurting throttle response.
Just thinking out loud, and looking for some discussion, pro or con. I want to supercharge my '01 Miata, and want the benefits of intercooling, without detracting from the throttle response and low end torque the supercharger offers. Jim |
Originally Posted by WonTon
(Post 559620)
water to air adds at least 4 moar failure point over air to air!
Jim |
Originally Posted by jimj64
(Post 559675)
In the case of superchargers, wouldn't they be more effective though? Not necessarily more efficient, I'm thinking in terms of throttled volume. One of the problems (if you want to call it that) with adding an air to air intercooler to a supercharged engine is increasing the throttled volume, hurting throttle response.
Just thinking out loud, and looking for some discussion, pro or con. I want to supercharge my '01 Miata, and want the benefits of intercooling, without detracting from the throttle response and low end torque the supercharger offers. Jim You can have both air to air and throttle response by installing dual throttle bodies. See this thread in the Supercharger Forum. https://www.miataturbo.net/supercharger-discussion-38/supercharger-dual-throttle-project-42026/ |
Originally Posted by BarbyCar
(Post 559802)
I thought you didn't want the noise of a supercharger.
You can have both air to air and throttle response by installing dual throttle bodies. See this thread in the Supercharger Forum. https://www.miataturbo.net/showthread.php?t=42026 Jim |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 559621)
because old technology < new technology
Again, just trying to get some discussion going on the pro's and con's, I am not trying to argue with anyone. It just seems, at least on the surface, to be a viable option. |
Originally Posted by jimj64
(Post 559895)
OEM's, for example the late model ford F-150 Lightning SVT, are using liquid to air intercoolers on some of their supercharged models. I also found a number of aftermarket supercharger kit builders using Liquid/air intercoolers in their kits.
Again, just trying to get some discussion going on the pro's and con's, I am not trying to argue with anyone. It just seems, at least on the surface, to be a viable option. |
Originally Posted by gospeed81
(Post 559902)
The Lightning example sucks and is restrictive, I'm helping a buddy pull his out right now.
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I always assumed that the air-water IC was used mostly for packaging. On a Miata an air-air IC is easy because of the front opening, not so much on an MR2.
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Originally Posted by jayc72
(Post 559943)
I always assumed that the air-water IC was used mostly for packaging. On a Miata an air-air IC is easy because of the front opening, not so much on an MR2.
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Originally Posted by Matt Cramer
(Post 559955)
Exactly. That's why we have an air to air intercooler on our Miata and an air to liquid on our MR2. The MR2 can't get any airflow in the engine compartment.
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the celica gt-four had an air/water
i ran an air/water on my miata. i hated both. |
The biggest issue with a/w setups is the people don't realize how large of a heat exchanger they need to run.
With A/W you have to temperature deltas to deal with and you need to keep the water as close to ambient as possible to be efficient. Sadly most use similar sizes for the exchanger and intercooler which will result in warm water and poor efficiency. I run a 26x7x2 heat exchanger and don't have any issues. I chose to do this to keep the throttle before the S/C and to have smallest throttled volume possible. |
Originally Posted by wnwright
(Post 572618)
The biggest issue with a/w setups is the people don't realize how large of a heat exchanger they need to run.
With A/W you have to temperature deltas to deal with and you need to keep the water as close to ambient as possible to be efficient. Sadly most use similar sizes for the exchanger and intercooler which will result in warm water and poor efficiency. I run a 26x7x2 heat exchanger and don't have any issues. I chose to do this to keep the throttle before the S/C and to have smallest throttled volume possible. What size is your IC core? Did you have one custom made or did you use an off the shelf part? Do you happen to have a photo of your setup? |
When I was considering running air/water (still kind of am... I still have the intercooler in the garage) I was planning to use my stock a/c condenser as a heat exchanger. It's thin (single row) but large, as big as the radiator. Thoughts on this?
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Originally Posted by jimj64
(Post 572753)
Hey, thanks for an informed answer. I am planning on an air to water IC for exactly that reason as well. I am planning on running a 6*6*3" core IC with a 2 quart coolant tank and the same size heat exchanger as you. Hopefully I will be happy with the results.
What size is your IC core? Did you have one custom made or did you use an off the shelf part? Do you happen to have a photo of your setup? I don't have picture right now to post, but I can get one later. |
Originally Posted by therieldeal
(Post 572758)
When I was considering running air/water (still kind of am... I still have the intercooler in the garage) I was planning to use my stock a/c condenser as a heat exchanger. It's thin (single row) but large, as big as the radiator. Thoughts on this?
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