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6 speed solution?

Old Jun 21, 2021 | 06:27 AM
  #1  
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Default 6 speed solution?

Several years ago a British fabrication company called DaveFab built an EFR 6258 powered NA at 20psi & ran it around the Nurburgring for 40 laps without munching their 6 speed box.

Originally Posted by DaveFab

Anyone who's spoken to us will know that gearboxes have been an issue for us for a while now. It's a known weak point in the mx5's drivetrain, once you're over a certain torque figure gearboxes, even the 6 speed variety, become a disposable item. Fun as it is to drive a car back from a track day with most of the teeth rattling around in the casing (it's not fun) the novelty of changing gearboxes had well and truly worn off for us.

There are many theories why the gearboxes don't last and the reason we find most believable is high torque causing excess friction, leading to high temperatures. We believe the high temperatures introduce two problems.

1. The fluid starts to break down and loose its integrity. The film strength of good quality gearbox fluid is such that there is no metal to metal contact when the gears mesh, as soon as the fluid breaks down the teeth touch, friction and therefore temperature increases and a vicious circle begins.

2. The second problem is the casing itself. As the temperatures increase the alloy casing beings to expand and flex, this would only be by a tiny amount but it is possible that it's enough to allow the gear mesh contact patch to change or to effect a bearing or two. It's telling that it's generally 4th gear that lets go, as this is the gerear canoet furthest from the supporting bearings.

Anyway - the outcome of all of this theorising was that we decided reducing gearbox fluid temperatures wouldn't be a bad thing. Keep the fluid within its operating temperature and it will retain its properties, the housing keeps its tolerances and all should be well.

With the kit designed and high quality components sourced we fitted it ready for Germany. A dedicated oil pump draws the fluid from the drain plug on the 'box through a super fine filter before sending it on to the cooler core. It then re-enters the gearbox via the fill point. We designed a special bracket so the core can be installed out of the way of stones and speedbumps. A second bracket secures a Spal fan to the core, this means it doesn't need to be positioned directly in airflow - giving even more mounting options. Both the pump and the fan are triggered by a temperature switch, so it's a real set and forget system, exactly what you want on track.

The gearbox cooler works. Never have we had a gearbox in the car that can go more than 15 minutes on track without starting to feel notchy. With the cooler we comfortably drove to the ring, did 40 laps, then drove home and the shift still feels great.
Serxio of OneLapHeroes drove the car for 5 back-to-back flying laps of the Nurburgring before it developed a misfire and melted a piston through. The 6 speed gearbox held up to the abuse.

Is there anybody here running a gearbox cooler?
Old Jun 21, 2021 | 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by allofit
Several years ago a British fabrication company called DaveFab built an EFR 6258 powered NA at 20psi & ran it around the Nurburgring for 40 laps without munching their 6 speed box.



Serxio of OneLapHeroes drove the car for 5 back-to-back flying laps of the Nurburgring before it developed a misfire and melted a piston through.
They were lapping so slowly during the bits they actually showed, I thought it was actually a slow motion replay at first.... So that's not a test at all.

In fact all you can really read into it is that DaveFab themselves couldn't push the car hard enough to bring out any issues. The car survived 40 laps with them driving (on a trackday! where you can lap continuously), but as soon as they put someone capable of pushing the car in the drivers seat, it catastrophically failed even despite the fact you can't run back to back laps in tourist drives.....
Old Jun 21, 2021 | 11:09 AM
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Thanks Tran!
Put's it in a whole different perspective when you get the whole story.
Cooling the gear box IS a good idea.
Sourcing from the drain is fine but I'd want my feed back into the box into a pipe with spray nozzles at each gear.
Sort of like the piston squinters in a BP
Old Jun 21, 2021 | 11:57 AM
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Some folks use coolers. Others recommend heat shield between exhaust and transmission.
Old Jun 21, 2021 | 12:14 PM
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I think 35 laps of the Nurburgring in the hands of even moderately talented drivers, putting down "365hp/330ftlb at the flywheel at 20psi" would qualify as a test of the gearbox cooler? I can't speak to the driving abilities of DaveFab but maybe Tran knows more about those 35 laps than I do. When they did put Serxio in the driver's seat for 5 laps, the 6 speed gearbox still didn't fail.

Originally Posted by technicalninja
Thanks Tran!
Put's it in a whole different perspective when you get the whole story.
Cooling the gear box IS a good idea.
Sourcing from the drain is fine but I'd want my feed back into the box into a pipe with spray nozzles at each gear.
Sort of like the piston squinters in a BP
Interesting idea utilising oil squirters in the gearbox.
Old Jun 21, 2021 | 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by allofit
I think 35 laps of the Nurburgring in the hands of even moderately talented drivers, putting down "365hp/330ftlb at the flywheel at 20psi" would qualify as a test of the gearbox cooler? .
Not really, if they're lapping as slowly as it looked, then the load on the components is exponentially lower.

All you can really read into it is that the gearbox didn't blow up in the 4.5 laps Serxio did, so with a cooler, it survived 4.5x 8 minute sessions.... Not quite proving it's VLN ready.....
Old Jun 21, 2021 | 01:08 PM
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How do you know the few seconds of footage you saw wasn't from their sighting laps or learning the track early in the day? It's quite an assumption that all 35 laps were conducted at snail's pace. Keep in mind they'd already broken a few 6 speeds prior to this event.

All I can objectively read into it is the car did 40 laps at the Nurburgring, 5 of them in Serxio's hands, and the gearbox didn't pop.
Old Jun 22, 2021 | 10:11 AM
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Preventative measures are always good. Just run a cooler and hopefully it helps!
Old Jun 22, 2021 | 11:52 AM
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Another thing to add is something Emilio has brought up. The shift forks in the Miata AZ6 are aluminum. All the other versions in the family use steel forks. So they would also change strength as they heat up. So either an oil cooler is need to keep the trans temps down or someone needs to develop a better fork kit.
Old Jun 22, 2021 | 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by allofit
Is there anybody here running a gearbox cooler?
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Old Jun 23, 2021 | 05:09 PM
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Thanks for reposting that Emilio, I was going to go searching for it, to answer the question if others had done it, but I was just plain too lazy.
Old Sep 21, 2021 | 09:23 AM
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Now that my car has been to the Nordschliefe, I have a data point.....

Gearbox cooler fitted so that the 6 speed does not get above 85C. Literally did one lap at 260whp (0.9 bar with a GTX2860) and 4th gear failed. Pretty gutting on Lap 1 of a 2 day trackday at the Nordschliefe.....

Installed another 6 speed that night, went back out the next day and was able to complete 10 laps with the cooler but running just 0.7 bar for gearbox conservation purposes.
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