Another brake pad thread.. daily vs track - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain discuss the wondrous effects of boost and your miata...

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-09-2016, 05:20 PM   #1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 261
Total Cats: 15
Default Another brake pad thread.. daily vs track

So I have gone through my latest set of EBC yellowstuff pads in about 4 hours of track driving and maybe 1000 miles on the street, so it seems that it may be time for me to upgrade to some real pads for the track and something else for street duty. I have a soft place in my heart for Carbotech, because they're local and we ran them on our chump/lemons cars and they were fantastic. They're quite expensive, though. What is everyone running these days for HPDE type work? 150whp, ~2450lbs with driver. I called the G-loc guys and they recommended the R10 in front and R8 in rear (formerly XP10 and XP8 I assume). How do these compare to DTC-60's? Anything else out there? Looking mainly for longevity and modulation, I can deal with dust and noise.

As for street pads... there's something to be said for pad materials that are compatible (i.e. G-Loc R10/R8 for track, GS-1 for street), so as to keep running the same rotors, but I don't think I need street pads that are so expensive. In fact I think it would probably be cheaper in the long run to get a second set of NAPA rotors and run some autozone duralast gold (lifetime warranty) pads. I never had any issues with fade on the street with the oe-replacement pads that came on the car. Is there anyone else out there doing this?
Uncle Humjaba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 08:36 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Staunton, Va
Posts: 2,405
Total Cats: 200
Default

I run XP 10/12 s, sweep piles of dust off my stuff every day and wake the dead with the screeching. Then I just drive my wagon.
ryansmoneypit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2016, 08:49 PM   #3
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Flower Mound, TX
Posts: 235
Total Cats: 26
Default

I used to run HP+ when still driving my Miata on the street and track. Only one track in our area caused problems, Eagles Canyon it's really hard on brakes.
If you want to run the same pad for street and track, you might check DTC-30s. I run them in the back now, DTC-60's up front.
Looking at the charts on the Hawk web site, the DTC-30s have a very wide temp range.
EricJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2016, 01:22 AM   #4
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 17,992
Total Cats: 1,459
Default

I run hawk dtc-60s because they don't care about transfer layer. On the street I run rockauto $6 cardboard pads.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2016, 06:18 AM   #5
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hurricane, UT
Posts: 6,924
Total Cats: 526
Default

My DTC-30 rears are still quite noisy, don't care for them in Street use.
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2016, 09:46 AM   #6
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 261
Total Cats: 15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
I run hawk dtc-60s because they don't care about transfer layer. On the street I run rockauto $6 cardboard pads.
How's the modulation on these? I autocrossed a set of HP+ pads and they felt like an on/off switch (locked up almost instantly).
Run DTC-60 for front and rear? Same rotors for street and track?

Thanks!
Uncle Humjaba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2016, 12:26 PM   #7
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hurricane, UT
Posts: 6,924
Total Cats: 526
Default

I'm sure Aidan will chime in, but I'll share too since I'm running the same setup as he is.

I LOVE the DTC-60s. Such a fantastic track pad. Modulation for days.
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2016, 12:27 PM   #8
I take big bites
iTrader: (1)
 
turbofan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hurricane, UT
Posts: 6,924
Total Cats: 526
Default

I'm sure Aidan will chime in, but I'll share too since I'm running the same setup as he is.

I LOVE the DTC-60s. Such a fantastic track pad. Modulation for days. I haven't tried any other race pads, but I'm super happy with these.
turbofan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2016, 06:00 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: TAMPA, FL
Posts: 644
Total Cats: 27
Default

Another vote for street use of carbotechs. I think I use XP10 front, XP8 rear, but I'm not 100% sure. Have to check my notes.

I've tried various other brands over the years, carbotechs last long and they don't eat rotors. Oh and they grip hard.
AlwaysBroken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2016, 07:35 PM   #10
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Greenville SC
Posts: 261
Total Cats: 15
Default

Well I'm in for a set of DTC-60's and will pick up a set of whatever ceramics I can find at the local parts store. More friends than I realized run them and the only bad thing I've heard is that they chew up rotors.
With my miata I've replaced the rotors every time I've replaced the pads anyway...
Uncle Humjaba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 05:25 PM   #11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 177
Total Cats: 5
Default

Thread revival instead of starting a new thread:

Everything I have read says the DTC-60's dust a lot and can corrode the wheels, BUT they dont require a transfer layer.

Most of the carbotechs require dedicated rotors for each pad I believe, they dust, but its not corrosive? Right?

Most people here dont think a Hawk HP+ or a Stoptech Sport are sufficient for light HPDE duty, but these two COULD work on the street or do some lapping?

Is there a basic track pad that won't corrode wheels and you can swap in (read: doesnt care about transfer layer) or is there a street pad thats acceptable for light lapping? I can swap pads the night before an event, but I really dont like the idea of corrosive dust eating brand new wheels and since I'm new to lapping, I dont need the most expensive unicorn pad material.
Swanpuppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 07:15 PM   #12
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,669
Total Cats: 1,560
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanpuppy View Post
Thread revival instead of starting a new thread:

Everything I have read says the DTC-60's dust a lot and can corrode the wheels, BUT they dont require a transfer layer.

Most of the carbotechs require dedicated rotors for each pad I believe, they dust, but its not corrosive? Right?

Most people here dont think a Hawk HP+ or a Stoptech Sport are sufficient for light HPDE duty, but these two COULD work on the street or do some lapping?

Is there a basic track pad that won't corrode wheels and you can swap in (read: doesnt care about transfer layer) or is there a street pad thats acceptable for light lapping? I can swap pads the night before an event, but I really dont like the idea of corrosive dust eating brand new wheels and since I'm new to lapping, I dont need the most expensive unicorn pad material.
Awesome track pad, still great on the street, requires no bedding, no corrosive dusting? PFC 01 or 11

/search
sixshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2017, 10:16 PM   #13
Newb
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 39
Total Cats: 6
Default

https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...vs-xp10-71147/

DTC60 are popular, but the dust is a biatch to clean off wheels and is corrosive. They also have a higher metal loading so they wear rotors more than Carbotech/G-Loc. They give a slightly firmer pedal due to the increased stiffness of the pad material (because more metal).

I'm running G-Loc XP10 front / XP8 rear with NB2 sport brakes as I progress through NASA HPDE. Combine them with RBF600 and I've never had a braking issue. I blocked off my front brake ducts after switching to the XP10, because they were running too cool on track with the wimpy non-turbo BP4W. I was at Mid-Ohio, which is known to be tough on brakes, last weekend running 205mm RE71R's and they were phenomenal. I may try XP8's in the front whenever these pads run out, but I expect to easily get through the entire 2017 season on them given the current wear rate. The only real street use it sees is driving to events, so noise isn't a big issue, but they are freaking loud and will leave your wheels looking all nasty after a couple stops. The dust cleans off as easy as any street pad so there are no issues as long as you don't let it sit on there for weeks. They have sufficient brake torque when cold that I can lockup the front on the highway, so they're not unsafe for street use.
engineered2win is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 06:13 AM   #14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Netherlands, Europe
Posts: 79
Total Cats: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanpuppy View Post
Most people here dont think a Hawk HP+ or a Stoptech Sport are sufficient for light HPDE duty, but these two COULD work on the street or do some lapping?

Is there a basic track pad that won't corrode wheels and you can swap in (read: doesnt care about transfer layer) or is there a street pad thats acceptable for light lapping? I can swap pads the night before an event, but I really dont like the idea of corrosive dust eating brand new wheels and since I'm new to lapping, I dont need the most expensive unicorn pad material.
Hawk HP+ are fine on the street, they do not make noise and bite reasonably on the first touch. The dust does not corrode.
Whether they are good enough on the track depends on the power you have, the tires you have and the track you run. They are a step up from OEM pads and can tolerate more heat. I would say: just try them out and if you experience fading then upgrade your pads.
I ran my Civic with HPS pads on street tires and 20 minute track sessions with no problem at all. If you have semi slicks, a turbo and a track which is heavy on the brakes it becomes a different story.
DaWaN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 08:55 AM   #15
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 177
Total Cats: 5
Default

I should note I am a stock 2003 with DIY billies, going to be running 15x9's with the new Federal 595RS-RR tires. Not exactly the most upgraded car. I will look at the PFC's and Hawks again. Sixshooter, my searching skills do seem to suck, I dont see anyone selling PFC's for sport brakes?
Swanpuppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 08:58 AM   #16
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Port Saint Lucie,FL
Posts: 418
Total Cats: 3
Default

I've had my 99 (before turbo) at Sebring once, and Homestead twice, using hawk HP+ front and rear (with RE11 205's for tires). The pads seemed to do fine. Those were my first HPDE events so I was pretty new to that experience, but as the day progressed, I became more confident with the car. It was about then where I kinda wanted a little more as far as braking goes. I have not taken the car on track since I've had the turbo on, so I can't comment there. I'm almost positive they will not suffice tho, based on previous experience I had when I was harder on the brakes pre-turbo.

For the street and autocross tho, they perform fantastic. They have quite a bit more bite than stock (comparing with my brother's stock 2000 he had). I've had the same pads on for several years now and they still have good life left. They can be noisy at times (noisy as hell some days, not so much on others, not sure why. it is also my daily), and they do get the wheels dusty fairly quick. But they have not corroded the wheels in-between washes (every couple of weeks+). They clean up with just regular car soap and water.
Mech5700 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 09:11 AM   #17
Moderator
iTrader: (11)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 15,669
Total Cats: 1,560
Default

Sport brakes? Hmm. Yeah, I don't think they have them in PFC.

With stock power, street tires, and sport brakes you can do the HP+. I ran them at Sebring when naturally aspirated on street tires. They do dust more than the PFCs and you will need to upgrade when you increase power or go to Hoosiers but in your case they will work fine. The PFCs would work fine at your power level and on up from there if they made them for the sport setup.
sixshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 09:23 AM   #18
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Milwaukee
Posts: 177
Total Cats: 5
Default

Ahhh, dang sport brakes are limiting my choices (2003's all got these if I remember correctly). Got it. I used the Hawk HP+ before, but never on sticky tires and only on the street. I dont mind some dusting, I just worry about seeing the pictures from people who can't clean them off in time and start wrecking their wheels from the DTC-60s.

Has anyone used the Stoptech Sports? They claim to have a higher temp rating similar to the HP+ pads for light lapping duty, again, not sure if they fit sport brakes.

Mech5700, that is the same thoughts I have on the HP+, seemed to do well as a street/autocross pad, but wasn't sure about using as a dual duty lapping pad.
Swanpuppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 09:25 AM   #19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Port Saint Lucie,FL
Posts: 418
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mech5700 View Post
I've had my 99 (before turbo) at Sebring once, and Homestead twice, using hawk HP+ front*** and rear (with RE11 205's for tires). The pads seemed to do fine. Those were my first HPDE events so I was pretty new to that experience, but as the day progressed, I became more confident with the car. It was about then where I kinda wanted a little more as far as braking goes. I have not taken the car on track since I've had the turbo on, so I can't comment there. I'm almost positive they will not suffice tho, based on previous experience I had when I was harder on the brakes pre-turbo.

For the street and autocross tho, they perform fantastic. They have quite a bit more bite than stock (comparing with my brother's stock 2000 he had). I've had the same pads on for several years now and they still have good life left. They can be noisy at times (noisy as hell some days, not so much on others, not sure why. it is also my daily), and they do get the wheels dusty fairly quick. But they have not corroded the wheels in-between washes (every couple of weeks+). They clean up with just regular car soap and water.
***Would like to add that I have front sport brakes as well.
Mech5700 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2017, 11:40 AM   #20
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 403
Total Cats: 3
Default

I just went through the same experimentation with the front Sport calipers. I'm walking away from the Yellowstuff.

My dedicated track pads are a custom set of Raybestos ST43s made for me by the nice folks at Porterfield Brakes. They cost me $249, but I think they will last a very long time. I have nine days on them at VIR and they only wore down about 1mm. I use them when I put on the NT01s. I drive my car to the track on RE-71As with the StopTechs (and use them in the wet). I don't need to swap rotors. Both those pads are easy on rotors and seem to get along fine on the same discs. I've done a couple of dry weather track days on Shenandoah with the StopTechs/RE-71As and thought they were fine. I just didn't push real hard. I have XP8s out back and a Wilwood proportioning valve. When I swap in the ST43s, I go two-and-a-quarter turns to rear bias. I think it's fantastic. No problems with the XP8s on the highway.

I'm going to give the StopTechs another try for an upcoming, one day event at Dominion Raceway. I may even swap in the ST43s but keep running the RE-71As. That might turn out to be the best solution, but I would like to find a track pad that won't disintegrate during the commute. I just want to show up, unload and drive. I destroyed a set of non-Sport ST43s and a set of Cobalt Friction pads by driving them to and from events. The non-Sport PFC 11s worked well and held up to the highway driving, but I thought they were expensive for how long they lasted. That's why I tried the Yellowstuff. They don't last either and tear up rotors. A set of G-LOCs might be in my future, but I had bad luck with rotor deposits using XP10s up front. Are the G-LOC pads somehow different than the equivalent Carbotechs?

I sent Performance Friction a note asking what it would take to get some front Sport caliper PFC 11s produced. I'll report back.
poormxdad is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Carbotech XP8 front and rear for sport brakes jpreston Miata parts for sale/trade 6 06-14-2016 09:18 PM
Fat Cat Motorsports Coilover set for 2006-2015 MX-5 and 2004-2011 Mazda RX-8 graexodus Miata parts for sale/trade 1 05-09-2016 01:57 PM
Critique My Track Driving aidandj Media 5 05-09-2016 01:27 AM
Long-Time Lurker, Fellow Boost Junkie Pics and Vids Inside! Boosted Jellybean Meet and Greet 0 04-20-2016 12:04 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:20 AM.