NASSEX

Anyone seen or used or heard anything about these fender braces/frog arms before??!! The price is very appealing... But the weight for the pair almost seems too good to be true.. makes me question the rigid material strength a bit.

Cybul frog arms is what they're called.. I originally posted the ebay (lol) URL but then soon remembered that's not allowed by forum rules

RunninOnEmpty

iTrader: (5)

Okay, I’ll bite so others can prove me wrong and you get better answers…

But the V8 Roadsters says it’s only 3lbs total. Among these types of kits…. V8R, Boss Frog, Paco, GarageStar, and whoever was the Japanese innovator, I think the best one is V8R. It had more than 3 points of mounting, less complicated and used something similar to a gusset to improve the strength.

Overall, unless you’re putting a crap ton of stress on the chassis, it’s probably the very last thing I’d do again. I sold my BFs and that wasn’t some engineering feat. it was a flat thick plate with a few holes to save weight and a few welded bars for some structure. It did help a little, but that was money I could’ve used on a better suspension at the time.

There are smart folk in Poland, and I’m sure it works as well as some of the other products, with a lower cost of living there. Good on them for breaking cost barriers on that side of the pond. I just think there are better places to spend coin than fender braces.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

I think so too. We sold the Boss Frog braces until Ric closed that brand down. Never replaced them with anything else.

NASSEX

Thanks guys I appreciate it. I was wondering about how effective they really are..
One thing I was surprised about though is most people say front strut braces aren't very useful on miatas since they're double a arm struts.
But I found out the opposite to be true.
I found a stock Nb front strut brace for $18 at the junkyard, put it on and immediately felt much sharper turn in. It for sure added more response to initial turn in.
But the fender braces I guess will be something I'll do last if ever.

Idk if it makes a difference but I did already have the racing beat tubular front sway bar. The racing beat bar made the front turn "like on rails" and then the front strut brace added better turn in response with it. Very noticeable.
I think the strut tower brace might be less noticable without a big front roll bar. Not sure but maybe

RunninOnEmpty

iTrader: (5)

Do a blind test - have a friend secretly add or remove it a couple times, and you can rate the driving experience. Rate it - don’t guess if it’s on or off. The goal being your driving preference.

GohCart

Check out their test at 5:25:

scottns

iTrader: (1)

Not a very scientific test. Also they should have done each bracing mod and then measure to see which actually had an effect. The frame rails alone would probably have given the same result for their laser pointer test. That being said I do have the Garage Star fender braces on my car along with the FM frame rails

GohCart

I haven't seen anything better TBH. Did you add the braces and rails at the same time?

Lokiel

Here's my experience/thoughts on chassis stiffening on my MSM, which had the most OEM chassis stiffening of all NBs:

I had my MSM for about 2 months as my only car and decided to buy an MX5-Plus twin hoop roll bar, mostly for safety in case of a roll-over:

This roll bar was designed by a qualified professional structural engineer that loved MX5's and the thick bar along the bottom serves as a torque box since the front is fixed to the top of the seat belt frame (it closes off the U-shaped seat belt structure, preventing it from twisting).
The torque box was included to help eliminate chassis twist, an issue with the NA/NB that was addressed in the design of the NC.
I wanted an official mod-plate for the roll bar installation to eliminate any issues with "Mr. Plod" so had the roll bar installed by MX5 Plus (at their original address before they moved to the their current larger location) and they could attach the mod-plate to the car's firewall - all nice and legal (but taking up valuable space on the engine bay's firewall).
The ONLY vehicle I'd driven for 2 months before the installation was the MSM so it was immediately obvious just from turning right, out of their driveway at about 10km/h onto the main road, that the car felt completely different.
There was a couple of roundabouts (traffic circles) on the way home and the car felt much more solid and planted to the road when driving around these without slowing down (there was no traffic I needed to yield to).
The roll-bar's built-in torque bar eliminated chassis twist A LOT!
The main reason I got the roll bar was for safety but it's worth it just for the chassis stiffening IMO.

FYI: Some guys claim that even with a roll bar that their car still feels the same and I won't dispute that.
I believe that it's the "meaty" torque-box built into all MX5 Plus roll bars that eliminates the chassis twist since it securely closes the U-frame of the seatbelt mount.
Those of us in Australia with the MX5 Plus roll bars all swear by its anti-chassis-twist capabilities; those with other roll bars are either on the fence about it or deny it..

After the roll bar I bought FM's frame rails.
Driving around I couldn't feel/notice any difference at all.
What I did notice though was that when jacking up one corner of the car, the other wheel on that same side got airborne MUCH earlier than it used to so it is obviously helping chassis stiffness even though I couldn't feel it.

I then installed the Boss Frog Frog Arms.
Turn-in fells much sharper.
We drive on the left in Australia, just like Mazda intended, so when coming home and I need to turn right onto my street, I need to cross the traffic coming the other way which can be heavy at times.
I usually try to time it so that I can maintain speed without needing to slow down and turn right sharply.
The first time I did this after installing the Frog Arms it really wrenched me in my seat since I didn't need to turn so hard.
To test it out I went around the block three more times and noted the same thing.
So the turn-in was definitely noticeable.
Also, driving over crappy surfaces is much quieter, the console and instrument cluster don't seem to be shaking themselves to bits.

I then replaced my OEM front strut brace with a Cusco 3-point brace (it does include the steel plate that bolts behind the firewall and attaches to the chassis on the driver-side of the firewall).
I didn't notice any difference at all since I'd previously always driven with the OEM 2-point brace in place.
My 3-point brace didn't have a brake master cylinder brace point on it so I had one welded on, added a break master cylinder stopper and now braking is firmer since the firewall doesn't flex when baking.
Now the 3-point brace serves a purpose, looks cool and gives me something safe to lean on when working in the engine bay (unless I have to go deep, in which case I have to pull the bloody thing right out)..

I don't have door bars since I think the car's hard enough to get in and out of for a DD as it is.

I have several sets of jack stands, some pin-locked and some that screw up and down.
I can't use 4x pin-lock stands because the car pivots diagonally on the stands, the chassis is that stiff, it doesn't flop down on the 4x pin-locked stands so I need to use at lease one screw-lock jack stand.
NitroDann even commented on this when he had my car at his shop so my chassis stiffening definitely works.

Delrin door stop have been installed but I didn't notice the difference - my OEM doorstops were still in good condition though.

Would I do these mods again - yes!
(maybe not the Cusco 3-point Front Strut brace because those are getting harder to find and are expensive - money better spent elsewhere).

Fireindc

iTrader: (13)

Interesting. If cost weren't a factor (I.E. you got them for free), would they be worth the weight penalty to install? Or would you still go without them? From a turbo miata track car perspective, of course.

brainzata

iTrader: (4)

The best fender braces hands down are the Paco motorsport..

Gee Emm

Thanks Lokiel!

Since ADRs (or perhaps just allowable mods for rego?) were updated to disallow full cages in road registered vehicles, I suspect that door bars would be caught there too.

Unless there is something less effective in the seat belt mount of, say the BD bar, compared to the MX5-Plus bar, I would expect that any bar with that mount and a full diagonal would improve torsional stiffness. Having said that, the load paths, and the engineering of the seatbelt mount, appear very well done.

dickamusmaxamus

I threw Paco Strong arms into my K swapped car, and holy hell the difference was real. The whole front end of the car felt more solid, the car dives into corners in a manner that makes me feel much more confident, the hood cowl shakes mostly went away, it was really a night and day difference. I have the frame rail braces as well, excited to see how those change things up too.

Fireindc

iTrader: (13)

I finally installed the frog arms I bought for my car years ago. An unfortunate incident involving a tire wall prompted me to finally put them on, since I had to pull the fender anyways.

So far, just street driving, I'm liking them. The front end of the car is super solid feeling, particularly down my dirt road. I don't know if that will translate to any improvement on track, I don't really expect it to, but I'm a fan of how they feel for street driving.