Baer Brakes - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain discuss the wondrous effects of boost and your miata...

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-18-2008, 03:44 PM   #1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
 
Saml01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,730
Total Cats: 2
Default Baer Brakes

Its pretty cheap compared to wilwood, almost half price.

How come we dont hear anything about the Baer big brake conversion for the Miata? Worse performance?
Saml01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2008, 04:26 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
samnavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: VIRGINIA BEACH, VA
Posts: 6,020
Total Cats: 175
Default

I will caveat all of the below by saying I'm far from an expert on this subject:

I don't think it's strange there aren't more aftermarket brake options, or that there is a great deal of interest in them.
I think it's consensus that the stock 94+ brakes are pretty damn good with lines/pads/fluid for all but hard track abuse. Brake upgrades beyond lines/pads/fluid (assuming 94+) for a DD street-car are kinda overkill anyways. I'm not talking about the dude who lives on Mulholland Hwy and corner carves 10 miles to work and back... just the other 99% of DD's.

As hard as I've ever driven my Miata on the street, I've never reached a point braking where I thought I needed more. I did upgrade to 94+ awhile back because I got it cheap... but I don't think I needed it.

If you've got a decent set of pads, it makes more sense to spend money on tires for a street car. I thought my 195 T1R's were the bizzle until I rode with a guy on 205 Azenis... I can imagine the grip you'd have with wider. You can pick up 15x7 6UL's and 225 T1R's for $1100... which will improve stopping on the street 10x what a set of Willwoods can.

One question I have is why Falken only makes Azenis in 205 for 15" wheels? 225/45/15 RT615's would be the ideal 300whp Miata tire. I've been doing a lot of homework for my eventual upgrade to a 300whp '99. Wheels are a no-brainer with 6UL's... but tires choice is giving me fits.

If you're looking for that extra 1% of performance trail-braking onto and offramp, then perhaps a set of big-brakes will help you modulate better... until you hit a guardrail (then you stop really fast).
samnavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2008, 04:47 PM   #3
Junior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: las vegas
Posts: 203
Total Cats: 0
Default

i just bought the wilwood kit for my car from a guy in L.A

i got a smoking deal for them 550

11 inch rotor the car stops like a dream best 550 i ever spent

but i was looking for the baer kit at first

he has a set of kvr big brake's for the miata

i'll post a link for his thread


http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/pts/759318603.html
blue turbo mx5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2008, 05:05 PM   #4
Elite Member
iTrader: (11)
 
Trent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,625
Total Cats: 5
Default

I pretty much agree with samnavy.

With the 94+ brakes, it's already so easy to lock up the wheels. At that point, it's the tires that dictate the stopping distance.
Trent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2008, 06:15 PM   #5
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

not easy to lock up wheels after 10 laps on a race track I tell ya whut.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2008, 11:29 AM   #6
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue turbo mx5 View Post
i just bought the wilwood kit for my car from a guy in L.A

i got a smoking deal for them 550

11 inch rotor the car stops like a dream best 550 i ever spent

but i was looking for the baer kit at first

he has a set of kvr big brake's for the miata

i'll post a link for his thread


http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/pts/759318603.html
wilwoods make the same clamping pressure as sport brakes. They're basically lighter and the pads are easier to change. Enjoy the placebo.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2008, 12:58 PM   #7
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: vancouver canada
Posts: 1,618
Total Cats: 0
Default

Baer brakes are pretty much expensive junk,when was the last time you saw Baer brakes on a race car or highend/exotic car.

The problem with Baer is,they use the same size rotor and caliper for every application,bigger is not always better,especially when it comes down to brakes.

I would much rather have a more balanced braking system that's designed for my car,than a huge universal brake set-up that looks good while the car is standing still but throws the cars balance off when the car is moving/braking.
spike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2008, 01:52 PM   #8
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (9)
 
Saml01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 5,730
Total Cats: 2
Default

Makes sense, thanks guys.
Saml01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2008, 02:11 PM   #9
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,365
Total Cats: 1,326
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post

One question I have is why Falken only makes Azenis in 205 for 15" wheels? 225/45/15 RT615's would be the ideal 300whp Miata tire. I've been doing a lot of homework for my eventual upgrade to a 300whp '99. Wheels are a no-brainer with 6UL's... but tires choice is giving me fits.
The two ideal 300whp Miata tires are already available in a 225/45. They are the Toyo RA-1 and the Nitto NT-01. If you thought a 205 Azenis was grippy, a 225 R-comp will blow your mind.
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2008, 02:25 PM   #10
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 860
Total Cats: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spike View Post
I would much rather have a more balanced braking system that's designed for my car,than a huge universal brake set-up that looks good while the car is standing still but throws the cars balance off when the car is moving/braking.

Isn't that the reason why you invest in a $40 proportioning valve?
The_Pipefather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2008, 02:28 PM   #11
Guest
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Vaughan, On, Canada
Posts: 1,092
Total Cats: 0
Default

I used to run the Baer Brake setup on my old Miata for a while. It was a little heavy, but 400hp made me not think about that. Only problem was that I could sometimes lockup the front at 65-80 Mph as the calipers just grabbed.

Once I learned to drive with them it was great! First lockup at speed was a little scary.
M-Tuned is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2008, 05:33 PM   #12
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: vancouver canada
Posts: 1,618
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Pipefather View Post
Isn't that the reason why you invest in a $40 proportioning valve?
A proportioning valve will not balance out the massive 13'' rotors and their unsprung weight during braking.
spike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2008, 06:45 PM   #13
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ABQ, NM
Posts: 1,850
Total Cats: -8
Default

Functionality wise, I don't see any real reason to spend the money on anything more than 94 brakes. With proper tires and pads they are more than adequate at the track.
BenR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2008, 07:13 PM   #14
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 860
Total Cats: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spike View Post
A proportioning valve will not balance out the massive 13'' rotors and their unsprung weight during braking.
that's an unlikely argument because unsprung weight has nothing to do with the balance of the car. Maybe with the damping requirement, but not balance.
The_Pipefather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2008, 07:54 PM   #15
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,365
Total Cats: 1,326
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenR View Post
Functionality wise, I don't see any real reason to spend the money on anything more than 94 brakes. With proper tires and pads they are more than adequate at the track.
Personal experience? I've faded Porterfield R4 race pads in my stock brakes.
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2008, 08:16 PM   #16
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

what sav said. i was shocked how solid my big brakes were on the track. i was able to keep up with faster miatas in the corners because I could brake later and with more confidence.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2008, 09:49 PM   #17
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenR View Post
Functionality wise, I don't see any real reason to spend the money on anything more than 94 brakes. With proper tires and pads they are more than adequate at the track.
I need to get a set so I don't have to use the sport brakes.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2008, 10:28 PM   #18
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
samnavy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: VIRGINIA BEACH, VA
Posts: 6,020
Total Cats: 175
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
The two ideal 300whp Miata tires are already available in a 225/45. They are the Toyo RA-1 and the Nitto NT-01. If you thought a 205 Azenis was grippy, a 225 R-comp will blow your mind.
That goes back to my 99.9% of daily drivers.
What kind of mileage can you expect out of a set of those?

I can't spend $600 on tires twice a year. The term "ideal" means different things to different people. Sure, I'll take an Atom around the inside with R-Comps... but I've gotten 20k out of 2 sets of T1S and will have at least that much from my current T1R's, for $90 each

I think there's a need for more choices in 15" tires in the 225 range. I'm gonna need to see a set of 225/50 T1R's before I decide if a sidewall that tall meets my aesthetic standards. EdgeRacing sells the Ventus Z212 for $89 in that size... just haven't heard huge things about them.

I've got a lot more research to do on this and will start a dedicated thread when the time comes.
samnavy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2008, 10:43 PM   #19
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
That goes back to my 99.9% of daily drivers.
What kind of mileage can you expect out of a set of those?

I can't spend $600 on tires twice a year. The term "ideal" means different things to different people. Sure, I'll take an Atom around the inside with R-Comps... but I've gotten 20k out of 2 sets of T1S and will have at least that much from my current T1R's, for $90 each

I think there's a need for more choices in 15" tires in the 225 range. I'm gonna need to see a set of 225/50 T1R's before I decide if a sidewall that tall meets my aesthetic standards. EdgeRacing sells the Ventus Z212 for $89 in that size... just haven't heard huge things about them.

I've got a lot more research to do on this and will start a dedicated thread when the time comes.
We need more street tires in 225. RA-1/NT01 are the longest lasting tires made for the track. I can get about 10 track days (50 sessions) out of a set of NT01's, and about 6 track days out of a set of Azenis (195's). After you factor in the price, it comes out in a wash. I bet if the Azenis were available in 225, they'd last longer on cool track days if you could keep them in their effective heat range.

btw, NT01's last loger than RA-1's because even though its the same rubber and nt01's have lower tread depth, the rubber blocks are much fatter, so they have less heat in them initially and you can take shaving out of the equation. The wider you go, the longer they last...and its a significant difference.

After you drive one session on r-comps, you'll never go back. They make track days scary.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2008, 03:33 PM   #20
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 127
Total Cats: 0
Default

+1 on upgrading to 94 + brakes. Basically, you just need the brackets rotors and pads. The calipers are the same for all years. If you want a better feel, get SS brake lines.
PM me if your interested in an upgrade kit. I have everything(rotors,pads,brackets) except the SS brake lines.
flyingeunos is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 58 Yesterday 10:04 PM
New M62 Miata owner Pist0n Meet and Greet 4 10-01-2015 09:18 PM
Leaky Wilwoods mx592 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 1 10-01-2015 01:45 AM
Another Alternator thread ihiryu General Miata Chat 9 09-28-2015 11:22 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:14 PM.