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Old 08-14-2015, 11:23 PM   #1
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Default Broke *** suspension plan

Can't drive this worn out R-package suspension any more. It's not bearable.

So, I just snagged this on eBay. KYB AGX's, FM bumpstops, H&R springs, NA tophats. 41k miles on the H&R springs probably wasn't the best thing for the AGX but for $175 it's worth a chance. Can't be worse than Ricelands.



I'm planning on reusing the AGX's and the FM bumpstops. The H&R springs have to go. I know FM springs are good for daily use...are there any others worth considering? Tein? Would the R-package springs be a good choice?

KYB AGX shocks
FM bumpstops (trimmed? no?)
FM springs (Tein? R-package? Anything else?)
NA tophats

Any thoughts?
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Old 08-14-2015, 11:56 PM   #2
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I'm really sorry to tell you, and I hope it works for you, but that setup is dog crap.
Adding anything to it would make it even more of a waste of money.
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Old 08-15-2015, 12:07 AM   #3
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Nothing is worse than 100k mi R package.

EDIT: If nothing else, I figure I can resell them for more than I paid either on eBay with a proper title or on cr.net.

Last edited by mgeoffriau; 08-15-2015 at 12:20 AM.
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Old 08-15-2015, 10:10 AM   #4
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Ran that setup with flyin miata Springs for a
Couple of years, worked well. For the price, you'll like it.

Ben
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Old 08-15-2015, 11:20 AM   #5
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I run the same setup with Teins. Extremely harsh, but that doesn't bother me.

For $175, it's not bad. But the vast majority of people will hate it and want something different in very short order.


My biggest complaint is that they are non-adjustable for height. I would make spacers, but it's just not worth messing with it.
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Old 08-15-2015, 12:36 PM   #6
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You probably want the tallest softest springs with the longest softest bumpstops and set damping to minimum.
That would be the least awful setup.

Because IIRC they have no meaningful bump damping and wayy too much high speed rebound. Kinda like the NA R-package shocks.
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Old 08-15-2015, 01:11 PM   #7
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I have 100k 10ae bilsteins that I love. Why not sleeve and spring the r-package stuff?
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Old 08-15-2015, 01:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
that setup is dog crap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rleete View Post
the vast majority of people will hate it and want something different in very short order.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Kinda like the NA R-package shocks.
Hmm. Okay. Probably will just clean them up and see if I can get $250 or $300 for them. Is it worth saving the FM bumpstops, or is it not worth the hassle in a world with brand new $6 Honda bumpstops?

Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
I have 100k 10ae bilsteins that I love. Why not sleeve and spring the r-package stuff?
Because the R-package Bilsteins are terrible. I like Bilsteins too, I had an MSM setup that was great, but the R-package are really not good.
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Old 08-15-2015, 10:31 PM   #9
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I think I would try those Bilsteins, with eBay springs and collars and soft short 1" bumpstop, with nb hats. R package suspension is brutal. I'm still praying the techna comes out before I get my next miata
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Old 08-19-2015, 08:42 PM   #10
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You could always revalve your billies. Shims are $1.50 apiece here: http://fastline-performance.com/shop/shock-parts/valving-plates/8mm-valving-plate-detail.html#.VdUSn73n974

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected]_Elite
Front Bilstein HD:
16.5x0.50, 36x0.30, 30x0.45 preload
18x0.30 preload, 8p20, 36x0.80, 20x0.50
PM or email Shaikh and I'm sure he'd list off the rear stack for you (then post it here for posterity, obviously). Total price should come out under $25/corner counting fluid and schrader valve.
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Old 08-19-2015, 09:04 PM   #11
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Dude...AGXs are the worst thing since...





....








VD?
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Old 08-19-2015, 09:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Failure View Post
You could always revalve your billies. Shims are $1.50 apiece here: Valving Plates : 8mm Valving Plate

PM or email Shaikh and I'm sure he'd list off the rear stack for you (then post it here for posterity, obviously). Total price should come out under $25/corner counting fluid and schrader valve.
You mean like DIY? Got a link to a guide or something? I googled and found a lot of stupid threads on honda forums.
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Old 08-22-2015, 12:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
You mean like DIY? Got a link to a guide or something? I googled and found a lot of stupid threads on honda forums.
You need:
The shim stack you want to move to (minus whatever shims are already in there; Shaikh would probably know but AFAIK no one here has actually opened one up personally. If you decide to do it, take some measurements and let us know)
Schrader valve
Appropriate tap, tap drill, and pilot bit
Shock oil (apparently AMSOIL Shock Therapy Light is the good stuff)
Snap ring pliers?

Drill a pilot hole near the bottom where the valve won't interfere with any other suspension components. This will vent the gas charge in the shock. Be careful with the shock after this because you don't want to scratch anything inside with your shavings. You should be able to take the lid off now. I don't recall whether it's held on with a snap ring or threaded on.

Once you have it open, pull everything out. You'll have a rod with piston and shims, a separator piston, a lot of filthy shock oil, and a couple of metal shavings. Drill the hole out larger and tap it, then screw in your schrader valve. Take the shim stack off the shock rod (screwed into the end, I guess? You'll figure it out) and replace it with the stack you want.

To reassemble, drop the separator valve in and vent through the valve until it drops down to a place that looks about right. No idea what's ideal, but obviously it shouldn't be all the way at the top or bottom and should be in the same place in all the shocks. Fill it with oil, then put the lid (with the rod through it) back on and reattach it. You don't want any air bubbles at all in here. Ideally I think you'd do it submerged in a tub of shock oil, but I'm sure there's cheaper, less wasteful ways. Charge the shock (I want to say 80-90 PSI?), and you're done.

Sorry I can't give any pictures or real tips. I've been meaning to do this but I want a custom stack which means I need to rig up a dyno, and life keeps getting in the way (wrecking my car, getting a new job, moving 500 miles away, etc).
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Old 08-24-2015, 02:50 PM   #14
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Where are you at? (Can't see cause mobile) I have a set of ugly first gen FM springs that I can let go fairly cheap. They are sagged though so will make the car hellastanced, yo. That said, with 54mm FCM bumps and Koni yellows the car road fantastic.

Supposidly 342/228 for f/r but who knows with close to a quarter million on them as far as I can tell.
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Old 08-24-2015, 09:52 PM   #15
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Eh, about 98% sure I'll just be flipping these. Anticipating some hefty medical bills in the near future so not worth futzing around with a mediocre solution.
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Old 08-25-2015, 10:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
Hmm. Okay. Probably will just clean them up and see if I can get $250 or $300 for them. Is it worth saving the FM bumpstops, or is it not worth the hassle in a world with brand new $6 Honda bumpstops?



Because the R-package Bilsteins are terrible. I like Bilsteins too, I had an MSM setup that was great, but the R-package are really not good.
The R-package are fine. You just need stiff springs on them. It's counter-intuitive, but true. Try some 600/350 or 700/400 springs on them and you'll be surprised.

They don't have much in the way of compression damping, so you need to make sure you have enough spring (>550lbs/in front) to absorb almost all the energy on compression events - without stiff springs they'll be jarring on to the (bad OEM) bumpstops. But they have more than enough rebound damping to control the rebound of stiff springs. (this is the approach of FM's new FOX coilovers btw- the first thing I thought of when I saw their dyno curves was - "that looks like an r package valving").
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Old 08-25-2015, 10:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkwhale View Post
The R-package are fine. You just need stiff springs on them. It's counter-intuitive, but true. Try some 600/350 or 700/400 springs on them and you'll be surprised.

They don't have much in the way of compression damping, so you need to make sure you have enough spring (>550lbs/in front) to absorb almost all the energy on compression events. But they have more than enough damping on rebound for that kind of spring. (this is the approach of FM's new FOX coilovers btw- the first thing I thought of when I saw their dyno curves was - "that looks like an r package valving").
R-package (green line):


FM fox:
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Old 09-30-2015, 07:46 PM   #18
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Thread reboot!

I sold the AGX setup for $265 on eBay. Turned around and bought a set of MSM Bilstein's with Eibach springs, NB tophats, and FCM bumpstops for $275.



So, new plan:

* Sell the Eibach springs
* 1 pair of extended tophats for the rear
* QA1 springs (450/300ish range?)
* Allstar sleeves and perches

I've got to do more research on the little bits and bobs -- nylon isolators, torrington bearings, tender springs, etc. But given my povery priorities I'm guessing I'll keep it as simple as possible.

Then, maybe sell the R-package suspension and see if I can't come out close to even. The car is the smelliest R-package ever so no point in preserving the R-package stuff.
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Old 09-30-2015, 08:02 PM   #19
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Instead of torrington bearings, get some of these delrin thrust washers: RideTech 70010828 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing five times cheaper and they won't rust/wear out.

450/300 is probably good for DD only, if you want to autocross or do anything more aggressive people have had good luck with QA1's high travel 550/350 springs on msm shocks.
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Old 09-30-2015, 09:00 PM   #20
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If you're that broke you can also save money and use Summit branded springs. A lot of us went that route.

600F/400R wouldn't be bad.
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