Bunches of squeaks only on decel in 1,2,3,4th gear. Any speed.
07-02-2017, 03:17 AM
#1
Bunches of squeaks only on decel in 1,2,3,4th gear. Any speed.
The squeak occurrance frequency increases proportionately to vehicle speed.
happened out of the blue, after a 45 minute drive home, no aggressive driving during trip. I got some gas, and drove home at 65mph with cruise control.
it is a very different squeak than the one i sometimes get from the clutch slave plunger against the metal tab.
happened out of the blue, after a 45 minute drive home, no aggressive driving during trip. I got some gas, and drove home at 65mph with cruise control.
it is a very different squeak than the one i sometimes get from the clutch slave plunger against the metal tab.
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07-02-2017, 05:36 PM
#3
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Granbury Texas
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Something is hitting driveshaft when the driveline shifts the opposite direction than during power and cruise operations possibly...
Can you "feel" it in the clutch pedal (drag it slightly during noise production)? Then it will be in the bell-housing (TOB).
Something might be hitting one of the half-shafts.
If I didn't feel it in the pedal I'd look under the car for a shiny spot somewhere.
Check lug nut torque as well
Hope this helps
Can you "feel" it in the clutch pedal (drag it slightly during noise production)? Then it will be in the bell-housing (TOB).
Something might be hitting one of the half-shafts.
If I didn't feel it in the pedal I'd look under the car for a shiny spot somewhere.
Check lug nut torque as well
Hope this helps
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07-03-2017, 12:36 AM
#5
Why would the TOB make no noise on 5th and 6th gear decels?
The noise occurs only during decel/engine braking/compression braking, IN GEAR(1, 2, 3, or 4th gear) clutch engaged.
As soon as I disengage clutch, noise stops.
This would lead me to believe it's not the throw out bearing, and something in the trans.
Yes/no?
I still haven't been able to get the car in the air, roommates have a car in the way.
The noise occurs only during decel/engine braking/compression braking, IN GEAR(1, 2, 3, or 4th gear) clutch engaged.
As soon as I disengage clutch, noise stops.
This would lead me to believe it's not the throw out bearing, and something in the trans.
Yes/no?
I still haven't been able to get the car in the air, roommates have a car in the way.
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07-03-2017, 10:00 PM
#6
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Location: Granbury Texas
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New better info!
5th is direct drive (only main/tail-shaft bearings involved) and 6th is behind the center plate.
1-4 use front section of countershaft. 6th uses countershaft but it is the rear section and the rear bearings are supporting it.
You have a counter-shaft bearing problem. I'm leaning towards the front one...
Listen with stethoscope on bottom of tranny case while someone shifts up and down the pattern.
All aspects of the noise (like which gear it makes noise in) are important for diagnosis.
Had I know that 5th and 6th were quiet I would have not suggested something outside the transmission.
You probably should be able to hear the noise (with the steths) in neutral with clutch released running as this operation rotates all of the bearings except for the center and rear tail-shaft bearing.
Please let us know what you find...
Rick
5th is direct drive (only main/tail-shaft bearings involved) and 6th is behind the center plate.
1-4 use front section of countershaft. 6th uses countershaft but it is the rear section and the rear bearings are supporting it.
You have a counter-shaft bearing problem. I'm leaning towards the front one...
Listen with stethoscope on bottom of tranny case while someone shifts up and down the pattern.
All aspects of the noise (like which gear it makes noise in) are important for diagnosis.
Had I know that 5th and 6th were quiet I would have not suggested something outside the transmission.
You probably should be able to hear the noise (with the steths) in neutral with clutch released running as this operation rotates all of the bearings except for the center and rear tail-shaft bearing.
Please let us know what you find...
Rick
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07-04-2017, 12:28 AM
#7
I still cant get the car up in the air (grrrrr roommates car) but I took the miata for a brief drive.
I can actually hear the squeaks very faintly when I am coasting in neutral with clutch engaged. Which I'm guessing is bad, since I should need a stethoscope to hear it normally. This trans has only 6000 miles on a rebuild from JO Motorsports. This means it wasn't put together correctly? My car only makes like 100lb/ft and hasn't been tracked.
I also noticed there is a "ping" noise if hit the throttle aggressively after a shift. Like a triangle (the instrument) is being struck only once, then dampened.
I can actually hear the squeaks very faintly when I am coasting in neutral with clutch engaged. Which I'm guessing is bad, since I should need a stethoscope to hear it normally. This trans has only 6000 miles on a rebuild from JO Motorsports. This means it wasn't put together correctly? My car only makes like 100lb/ft and hasn't been tracked.
I also noticed there is a "ping" noise if hit the throttle aggressively after a shift. Like a triangle (the instrument) is being struck only once, then dampened.
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07-04-2017, 07:43 AM
#8
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Location: Charlotte NC
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Is this the same trans you recently had rebuilt? I suggested TOB because my car makes the same noise so far as i can tell (with about 1500 miles on an OEM mazda 1.8 clutch...*******). I took a pajama pants video for you for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmb9...ature=youtu.be
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07-04-2017, 06:23 PM
#9
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Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Granbury Texas
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I still cant get the car up in the air (grrrrr roommates car) but I took the miata for a brief drive.
I can actually hear the squeaks very faintly when I am coasting in neutral with clutch engaged. Which I'm guessing is bad, since I should need a stethoscope to hear it normally. This trans has only 6000 miles on a rebuild from JO Motorsports. This means it wasn't put together correctly? My car only makes like 100lb/ft and hasn't been tracked.
I also noticed there is a "ping" noise if hit the throttle aggressively after a shift. Like a triangle (the instrument) is being struck only once, then dampened.
I can actually hear the squeaks very faintly when I am coasting in neutral with clutch engaged. Which I'm guessing is bad, since I should need a stethoscope to hear it normally. This trans has only 6000 miles on a rebuild from JO Motorsports. This means it wasn't put together correctly? My car only makes like 100lb/ft and hasn't been tracked.
I also noticed there is a "ping" noise if hit the throttle aggressively after a shift. Like a triangle (the instrument) is being struck only once, then dampened.
This noise can be created at idle by releasing and applying the clutch in neutral (car stationary). Clutch pedal depressed=no noise (unless you have a bad TOB then you have noise increase). Pedal released = slight whirr as almost ALL bearings inside trans are moving. No power is being transmitted so a bad bearing might not scream while doing this but it almost always is noisier than the rest of them.
Sometimes a less than ethical shop will use this trick to sell a tranny job; this often backfires as the noise will be there AFTER the rebuild as well.
Normal bearings (even the nosiey ones) will NOT create the noise on decel that you recorded.
Some brands are more pronounced (Domestics)
Some are quieter (German stuff)
Lay on the ground next to your car while someone applies and releases the clutch. If you can hear the same squeaking noise (even faintly) you're going to pull the tranny again...
If you hear nothing look for a shiny spot on drive shaft/half shaft (something rubbing). If you find a "rub" look to engine/diff mounts and closely at PPF mounting and angles. Make sure everything is correct.
The ping would worry me as much as the recorded noise. That might be from an endplay issue on one of the shafts (like thrust bearings in a engine). You might have a countershaft that is shifting in the case back and forth...
Not good.
I would not drive it anymore before I got that diagnosed. Certainly no further aggressive throttle applications...
It could be something completely simple as well; something hanging in the engine compartment hitting something.
Never overlook the obvious.
I'm always looking for the simple.
I have found directly after doing "the complex" far too often...
Your car may be "talking" to you.
My experience is if you have something weird going on and you do nothing you WILL find out just exactly what the issue is at the worst possible time in the worst possible place.
Listen to the car...
I'm awesome at diagnosing manual transmissions problems but this is the first one I've tried to do over the internet.
5 minutes with the car is all I would need...
If I had to place a bet right now it would be on the front countershaft bearing OR a countershaft thrust issue.
If it was the bearing and it was replaced during the rebuild I would expect a failure of the bearing "cage" internally inside the bearing.
Where my bearings come from is damned important to me. I'm good with Japan, USA, West Germany.
I will NOT install Chinese bearings in a tranny.
Time to go rebuild a 86 Vette A/C. Perfect 50K survivor, concourse quality. Going back to R12 - 35 degree vent temp/100 degree day is the target.
Hope this helps, have a good 4th of July
Rick
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07-04-2017, 11:19 PM
#10
Yes very informative.
i took the car for a gentle drive, I could get it to squeak a tiny bit during decel in 5th and 6, but very slightly.
2nd gear decel is by far the loudest.
the noise in all gears seems to go away above 3000rpm (engine noise starts getting much louder at 3200rpm, so i can hear the squeaking to silence transition)
noise in all gears seems to be loudest around 2500rpm, and present, in general, between 800rpm and 3000rpm.
my roommates finally put their wheels back on the car thats in my way, so i think i should be able to jack the car up tomorrow.
thanks again for the wealth of knowlege!
i took the car for a gentle drive, I could get it to squeak a tiny bit during decel in 5th and 6, but very slightly.
2nd gear decel is by far the loudest.
the noise in all gears seems to go away above 3000rpm (engine noise starts getting much louder at 3200rpm, so i can hear the squeaking to silence transition)
noise in all gears seems to be loudest around 2500rpm, and present, in general, between 800rpm and 3000rpm.
my roommates finally put their wheels back on the car thats in my way, so i think i should be able to jack the car up tomorrow.
thanks again for the wealth of knowlege!
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07-06-2017, 09:37 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Granbury Texas
Posts: 668
Total Cats: 190
Yes far easier to replace driveshaft. That would be "the simple" that should not be overlooked.
The cage is part of the bearing and you just replace the bearing.
After removing and dissembling trans...
Drive shaft will not make noise with car stationary.
A bad trans bearing might.
The cage is part of the bearing and you just replace the bearing.
After removing and dissembling trans...
Drive shaft will not make noise with car stationary.
A bad trans bearing might.
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07-08-2017, 04:00 PM
#15
Bad news.
got the car up high in the air. roommate in the car, me under the car with a cheap stethoscope.
Car at idle, trans in neutral.
Noise is absolutely coming from the trans, kind of near the front, right before the bell housing opens up. It isn't as pronounced of a squeak, more like a scratching, like fine steel wool rubbing on metal.
Noise goes away when clutch pedal is depressed past engagement point.
Discovered the diff makes a high pitched whine starting at 0.1mph that quickly exceeds my upper hearing limit at around 10mph. 949 OS Giken 6000 miles, properly broken in during first 50 miles, and new oil after that.... so that's cool.
Also discovered a clunking noise on the pass rear hub/axle end area, corresponding with the visible out of round of the axle. (rear bearings, seals, axles, diff all have 6000 easy street miles on them)
got the car up high in the air. roommate in the car, me under the car with a cheap stethoscope.
Car at idle, trans in neutral.
Noise is absolutely coming from the trans, kind of near the front, right before the bell housing opens up. It isn't as pronounced of a squeak, more like a scratching, like fine steel wool rubbing on metal.
Noise goes away when clutch pedal is depressed past engagement point.
Discovered the diff makes a high pitched whine starting at 0.1mph that quickly exceeds my upper hearing limit at around 10mph. 949 OS Giken 6000 miles, properly broken in during first 50 miles, and new oil after that.... so that's cool.
Also discovered a clunking noise on the pass rear hub/axle end area, corresponding with the visible out of round of the axle. (rear bearings, seals, axles, diff all have 6000 easy street miles on them)
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