Car in the Air, Wheels turn slowly in Neutral - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 03-12-2014, 11:03 AM   #1
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Default Car in the Air, Wheels turn slowly in Neutral

Facts:
1) car on jackstands (4)
2) FM Stage 1 happy meal
3) Fresh clutch adjustment
4) slave cyl not leaking
5) Clutch system freshly re-bled

Situation:
Gave the car a test start after not having had it up and running for a while. I haven't done anything to the drive train other than installing a 4.1 T2 in place of my old 3.9 T2.

So when the car is in neutral the rear axle is spinning slowly. Maybe 20rpm or so. When i depress the clutch pedal the rotating stops. I can slip the car into gear and the axle moves appropriately.

Background:
I've always had issues with this clutch setup. Engagement is right on the floor even when I adjust it the FM way. Engagement seems to change by the end of a session because the car can be very difficult to get into 1st or reverse in the pits.

So is this normal? I've never had the car running with the rear wheels off and up in the air like this. Or maybe I have and haven't noticed it... If it is a symptom of an issue... what is it?

TIA
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:09 AM   #2
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I'm no expert, but I *believe* it's from your transmission fluid basically acting as a viscous coupler between the spinning driveshaft and the transmission gears.

A transmisison fluid change (particularly to a lower weight fluid) would probably stop it from happening, but I don't particularly see it as an issue. The car doesn't stall out when it's on the ground/e-brake pulled in air in neutral, does it? It's not like there's a physical connection between them that's stressing anything?

Also, these: http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f10/...ar-air-475097/
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=704201
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=172482
http://forum.mazda6club.com/engine-d...s-neutral.html
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:13 AM   #3
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Mine does the same thing and I've seen the same thing happen on multiple other cars....It spins but I can quite easily stop the wheels using my hands with no issue...this is normal...

If the car stalls when you stop the wheels or you cannot stop the wheels then you have a clutch engagement issue...although this is probably not a safe way to test it.
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:24 AM   #4
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Thanks for the feedback guys. I didn't have any issues with the car stalling in neutral or struggling like it was loaded when i last drove it in december. I'll get it on it's own wheels tonight or tomorrow and confirm.

I'm just so paranoid with this clutch... I hate it! lol.
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:26 AM   #5
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It's definitely a ghost or other unworldly spirit.

Your ****'s haunted, dude. I'm sorry.
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:27 AM   #6
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You have that problem too, huh?

If you adjust it so it's completely engaged by the time the pedal hits the top of its travel, it's a ***** to get into gear for 1st and reverse, and creeps even when the clutch pedal is depressed.

Then if you adjust it so it's easy to get into 1st and reverse, it slips like a ************?

Yeah. Annoying.
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:33 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
You have that problem too, huh?

If you adjust it so it's completely engaged by the time the pedal hits the top of its travel, it's a ***** to get into gear for 1st and reverse, and creeps even when the clutch pedal is depressed.

Then if you adjust it so it's easy to get into 1st and reverse, it slips like a ************?

Yeah. Annoying.
I don't think this particular issue has anything to do with the clutch engagement point, as it happens with the car in neutral and cluch pedal released.

That being said, I have a similar issue with my NA (my NB seems to not be as bad?) where it doesn't like to go into 1st and reverse. It definitely doesn't go into 1st unless I'm almost *completely* stopped, and I've found that even then I sometimes need to do a weird pedal dance...

I'll be on the brake and clutch at a stop to shift into 1st, and it won't go. I've found that releasing both the brake and the clutch, and then going for the clutch again lets it slip easily into gear. Strange..
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:35 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlev View Post
I don't think this particular issue has anything to do with the clutch engagement point, as it happens with the car in neutral and cluch pedal released.

That being said, I have a similar issue with my NA (my NB seems to not be as bad?) where it doesn't like to go into 1st and reverse. It definitely doesn't go into 1st unless I'm almost *completely* stopped, and I've found that even then I sometimes need to do a weird pedal dance...

I'll be on the brake and clutch at a stop to shift into 1st, and it won't go. I've found that releasing both the brake and the clutch, and then going for the clutch again lets it slip easily into gear. Strange..

Right... i was replying to this portion of OP:

Quote:
Background:
I've always had issues with this clutch setup. Engagement is right on the floor even when I adjust it the FM way. Engagement seems to change by the end of a session because the car can be very difficult to get into 1st or reverse in the pits.
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Old 03-12-2014, 01:34 PM   #9
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This has nothing to do with clutch engagement or any other adjustment.

All cars with manual transmissions do this.

Mlev is correct in that this is nothing more than a demonstration of the fact that gear oil is not totally frictionless, and is acting as a very slight viscous coupler across the synchros. It is not a problem, nothing needs to be fixed or adjusted, no harm is being done.
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