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Old 12-16-2010, 09:58 AM   #1
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Default Carbon syncrhos..?

Just thinking about these, many newer performance cars come stock with them today.
Honda guys have 3 U.S. companies offering carbon-coated synchro sets, Synchrotech Transmission now offers sets w/ full carbon lining ($225~275).

http://shop.synchrotech-transmission...A.qscstrfrnt03

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2796648



They've proven to be 80-90% as durable as full brass for daily drivers, but FAR more robust in race/high rev applications.
I think if enough of us wanted a set, Synchrotech would produce them. Lets help reduce grinds & trans failures!
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Old 12-16-2010, 10:19 AM   #2
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Are we thinking 5 or 6 speed ones. Despite the fact I have approx 1.5 6 speeds in different parts of my residence, I don't know the difference between the two. Also, Do they offer a service to hook up the ones you already have?
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Old 12-16-2010, 10:36 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicksdigmiatas View Post
Are we thinking 5 or 6 speed ones. Despite the fact I have approx 1.5 6 speeds in different parts of my residence, I don't know the difference between the two. Also, Do they offer a service to hook up the ones you already have?
Both if there's interest, I also am not sure if they are different.
Synchrotech, GearSpeed, M-Factory, Bullhead, Frana etc sell "lowly" Honda D-Series trans internals because there's a market.

Synchrotech currently is a full rebuilder & parts retailer. I don't think they rebuild used synchros or sleeves,
right now they offer stock rebuilt, warrantied transmissions, custom race units or sell you brand new parts to DIY.
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Old 12-16-2010, 10:39 AM   #4
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Who needs this? I'm not slamming gears or power-shifting...so it doesn't make sense to me. I've also never had anyone successfully rebuild a trans.
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Old 12-16-2010, 11:19 AM   #5
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Who needs this? I'm not slamming gears or power-shifting...so it doesn't make sense to me. I've also never had anyone successfully rebuild a trans.
Hustler, you have miraculous healing powers. I could rarely coax my old trans to not hesitate the 2-3 upshift, or mildly grind 4-5.
My transmission looked minty fresh internally, except for worn syncho teeth. I didn't powershift, I used expensive MotorCraft synthetic MTF. Friction just won after 100k miles.

The gears were healthy & sharp. I'd gladly give up those last 10k miles of notchy B.S. shifting to have smooth, snappy shifts at high rpm.

Basically, I don't understand why the Honda guys have so many expert trans builders & parts & we live with '80s technology in otherwise a nicely advanced platform.
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Old 12-16-2010, 03:21 PM   #6
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I've successfully rebuilt a 6-speed before...

But it was a transmission that was never meant to have reverse in it, and neutral was between first and second.
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Old 12-16-2010, 03:53 PM   #7
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They sure do look fancy, but I can't see that they are really needed. We build trannys at the shop for high HP Evos and DSMs and they get all-brass synchros...the drag, auto-x and road race cars all get the same thing. A dragging clutch kills synchros, not high RPM shifting, and smooth shifting has more to do with making sure the teeth on the synchro and gear are matched properly and the preloads are appropriate for the use the trans will see. I could see the carbon giving a little more wear time if there was a problem with clutch adjustment.
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:43 AM   #8
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-Nobody is going to spend $275+labor to put carbon synchros in a $150 5-speed
-Good 6-speeds will shift as fast as you can move the lever, given a light enough clutch/flywheel
-6-speeds don't break on shifts, they break under steady power pulls

I just don't see an application for them.
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Import Al View Post
Basically, I don't understand why the Honda guys have so many expert trans builders & parts & we live with '80s technology in otherwise a nicely advanced platform.
Because what we have/use works (dont fix somthing if its not broke)

Most honda owners dont know the differnce between their mouths and their *** holes and if you tell them that somthing is the **** and they need it for their car to be better they will probly buy it...


just get a 6-speed
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Import Al View Post

Basically, I don't understand why the Honda guys have so many expert trans builders & parts & we live with '80s technology in otherwise a nicely advanced platform.
Because we are cheap.
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Old 12-17-2010, 09:09 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Who needs this? I'm not slamming gears or power-shifting...so it doesn't make sense to me. I've also never had anyone successfully rebuild a trans.
I came across this while doing some transmission research. Seems like an insane price for 6 spd rebuild labor.

http://www.evilgeniusracing.com/transmissions.html

$390 rebuild
~ $160 shipping round trip (based on ups shipping experience)
$ whatever parts your rebuild requires.

You can have mazda competition drop ship your parts to them

This means you could probably get a fresh rebuilt six speed with new synchros for ~ 1k. + cost of your messed up 6 spd
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Old 12-17-2010, 11:41 AM   #12
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Right now I have parts of an RX8 transmission that died at 30k due to a mysterious coutershaft failure. Everything else was fresh. I hope I will be sucessfull in my rebuild. If not, I have less than 300 invested so far.
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Old 12-17-2010, 06:24 PM   #13
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They put carbon fiber synchros in T56's behind 350-600 HP engines. Miata's don't make enough power to warrant the cost. The early T56's had paper lined syncros.
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Old 12-22-2010, 09:47 PM   #14
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I thought the 6 speed were Aisin, sourced for a number of RWD cars besides ours. I've read that the S2000 trans is also an Aisin. I don't see why they would make the internals that much different. Chicksdigmiatas, have you seen the internals of a Miata 6 to compare with your RX8, are they the same trans, or at least the internals. I would think the tail shaft and bell housing would be the main differences between the different Aisin units.
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:46 PM   #15
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My B3000/ranger was advertised as having carbon syncros and gives me no problems unless you try and shift 1-2 too fast but it is a truck after all.
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