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Old 01-15-2012, 07:21 PM   #1
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Default Clutch disc advice

Hello, I just bought a cusco 1.6L flywheel and act heavy duty pressure plate also for a 1.6L. I got a good deal, so I bought those even though I have a 1.8L.
Now I need a clutch disc and I need help choosing.
My setup will be similar to Emilios NA.
1.8bp with 99head, squaretop mani, MSM intake camshaft, mild port, ms. Around 160hp I assume. The problem is that I may want to boost in the future, I dont intend to ever be over 220-230ish hp.
I drive the car on the weekends, autocross and occasional track days. I dont care if the clutch is a little harsh in the street but I also want a clutch disc that wont be a pain in the rear for street driving.

I am looking at this ACT 4puck sprung disc, but it says "harsh engagement" CERAMIC (the picture is not the actual disc) http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AC...n/?prefilter=0

same one but "ARAMID FIBER" http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ACL-4000201/ (im inclined to get this one)

regular street disc act http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ACL-2000202/

This one looks good too but it may not be good if I turbo in the future http://www.racingbeat.com/Miata-1990...ate/52509.html

Last edited by hustler; 01-15-2012 at 07:51 PM. Reason: spelling fail
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Old 01-15-2012, 10:59 PM   #2
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Act organic 300tq disc is sweet
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:02 PM   #3
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A sprung 6-puck disc would work perfectly. It's not a clutch that is "easy" to drive, there is some chatter and you need to rev it a little more off stops, but it's not totally undoable - I DDed an ACT HD w/ a sprung 6-puck for 30k miles.
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Old 01-15-2012, 11:51 PM   #4
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Why run 6 puck when ormganic disc can hold the tq? I had both and felt the 6 puck was a little faster. Is that why?
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Old 01-16-2012, 12:48 AM   #5
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why are there 4 and 6 puck discs? I assume its because the 4 puck weights less but wouldnt a 6 puck or a full disc have more surface area to grab?
A 6 puck sprung aramid fiber "kevlar" would be my best choice, where can I find such a disc? I cant find 6 puck discs just 4 puck
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Old 01-16-2012, 01:10 AM   #6
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I would like something like this one but kevlar instead of ceramic. http://5xracing.com/i-2878119-act-6-...zda-miata.html
Is there such a thing?
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:49 PM   #7
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I am not familiar with the particular hardware you bought, but having had some experiences with clutch issues, I would suggest not using 1.6 clutch components in a 1.8. I have a supercharged 1.6 that probably makes about the same HP and TQ that your engine does. I "upgraded" to a 1.8 flywheel, pressure plate & clutch disc (Exedy stock replacement) and it did not hold up too well. After a few years and about 30K miles, the flywheel is toast, the Clutch and pressure plate are totally worn out, etc. I will admit that my rear main seal was leaking badly, so that might have contributed to the clutch failure. However, I still would think that almost any 1.6 clutch kit is not going to be strong enough for a built 1.8L. Anyway, the racing type disc like you have will definitely act like an off-on switch. I had one of those in my EVO VIII and it was a PITA to drive in the streets (Atlanta has lots of hills).
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Old 01-20-2012, 03:11 PM   #8
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I ran an ACT 4 puck ceramic race disc (solid hub) for two summers on the street and it took some getting used to, but was totally streetable. made lots of noise but worked awsome!
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:14 AM   #9
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Having had several different clutch disc and pressure plates I prefer a heavy duty pressure plate and a 6 puck sprung or unsprung disc. Pedal pressure will be heavier ..but the engagement of the 6 puck disc can be daily driven easily. The 4 puck and 3 puck engage quicker/harsher...more on and off modulation than the 6 puck.
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Old 01-21-2012, 02:27 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver92b View Post
I am not familiar with the particular hardware you bought, but having had some experiences with clutch issues, I would suggest not using 1.6 clutch components in a 1.8. I have a supercharged 1.6 that probably makes about the same HP and TQ that your engine does. I "upgraded" to a 1.8 flywheel, pressure plate & clutch disc (Exedy stock replacement) and it did not hold up too well. After a few years and about 30K miles, the flywheel is toast, the Clutch and pressure plate are totally worn out, etc. I will admit that my rear main seal was leaking badly, so that might have contributed to the clutch failure. However, I still would think that almost any 1.6 clutch kit is not going to be strong enough for a built 1.8L. Anyway, the racing type disc like you have will definitely act like an off-on switch. I had one of those in my EVO VIII and it was a PITA to drive in the streets (Atlanta has lots of hills).
All you are getting in going from a 1.6 to a 1.8 is surface area, nothing more. What you describe has nothing to do with problems specific to the 1.6 or 1.8, but rather problems specific to the driver.

@OP: DDing a 6puck is not for everyone. Just as Sav did in the past, I've DD'd a 6-puck with an extremely lightweight flywheel. It was not an easy clutch to drive, although it held remarkably well. If you've never driven a 6-puck, you may want to take an opportunity to drive a puck clutch before jumping into one. I can imagine some people would have difficulty DDing it, and a handful would not be able to do it at all.
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
All you are getting in going from a 1.6 to a 1.8 is surface area, nothing more. What you describe has nothing to do with problems specific to the 1.6 or 1.8, but rather problems specific to the driver.
Of course what you get from a larger clutch is surface area. Greater surface area = more torque capacity. The driver has a major impact on clutch longevity to be sure. However, this particular driver has had experience driving manual transmissions for probably over a million miles during almost 50 years of driving. The problems with the stock clutch in my case were due to an undersized/weak clutch for the job. And the *fun* factor of daily driving with a racing clutch is highly over-rated

Quote:
@OP: DDing a 6puck is not for everyone. Just as Sav did in the past, I've DD'd a 6-puck with an extremely lightweight flywheel. It was not an easy clutch to drive, although it held remarkably well. If you've never driven a 6-puck, you may want to take an opportunity to drive a puck clutch before jumping into one. I can imagine some people would have difficulty DDing it, and a handful would not be able to do it at all.
Agreed, 6 puck clutches are racing clutches, not really made for stop & start use. Some of the 3 puck clutches are "extremely" difficult to modulate even for experienced race car drivers. You can get used to driving a 6 puck clutch on the streets, but IMHO it's never going to be a good DD solution. And BTW, since your profile says you live in Central WA, don't go West. With a clutch like that don't even think of driving in downtown Seattle LOL!
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Old 01-21-2012, 01:04 PM   #12
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Most days I don't mind my 6-puck, but when I have to pull thr trans again I'll put in the organic disc that I have. The 6-puck NEVER lets you forget that that you are driving with a 6-puck. You are never allowed to have a lazy driving day.
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver92b View Post
Of course what you get from a larger clutch is surface area. Greater surface area = more torque capacity. The driver has a major impact on clutch longevity to be sure. However, this particular driver has had experience driving manual transmissions for probably over a million miles during almost 50 years of driving. The problems with the stock clutch in my case were due to an undersized/weak clutch for the job. And the *fun* factor of daily driving with a racing clutch is highly over-rated
I do not intend to be mean when I say this but...minus the bolded part, you've described driver problems (Incorrect clutch selection). And completely agreed with the bolded part.

Quote:
Agreed, 6 puck clutches are racing clutches, not really made for stop & start use. Some of the 3 puck clutches are "extremely" difficult to modulate even for experienced race car drivers. You can get used to driving a 6 puck clutch on the streets, but IMHO it's never going to be a good DD solution. And BTW, since your profile says you live in Central WA, don't go West. With a clutch like that don't even think of driving in downtown Seattle LOL!
I've driven in downtown Seattle no problem with my 6puck, as well as in snow and other extremely bad weather. I don't really have difficulties with driving it in any conditions I've ran into, it's just that it's not fun and can be a pain in the *** at times. As djp pointed out, there's no such thing as a lazy driving day with a 6-puck. If you have a 6 puck, driving around means giving your full attention to what you are doing.

Last edited by blaen99; 01-21-2012 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
I do not intend to be mean when I say this but...minus the bolded part, you've described driver problems (Incorrect clutch selection). And completely agreed with the bolded part.
The driver did not select the clutch.... It was a recommendation from a third party. The driver learned that this recommendation was not spot on....

Quote:
I've driven in downtown Seattle no problem with my 6puck, as well as in snow and other extremely bad weather. I don't really have difficulties with driving it in any conditions I've ran into....
You are a hell of a lot better driver than I am
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Old 01-21-2012, 08:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver92b View Post
The driver did not select the clutch.... It was a recommendation from a third party. The driver learned that this recommendation was not spot on....
So, driver learned of his error by trusting a third party that had no clue what he was talking about? I've ran into that more times than I care to talk about myself! (Like...with my timing belt, oh god )

Quote:
You are a hell of a lot better driver than I am
I seriously doubt that. I seriously, seriously doubt that. You'd likely run rings around me on a track, I am just above average at clutch modulation from running a super-shitty Honda with the cheapest clutch I could find (which was a 4-puck) throughout high school and college.
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Old 01-21-2012, 08:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blaen99 View Post
So, driver learned of his error by trusting a third party that had no clue what he was talking about? I've ran into that more times than I care to talk about myself! (Like...with my timing belt, oh god )
Actually, the tech who recommended the clutch is very knowledgeable and I trust him. Apparently he's had good results in the past with those combos. This time it did not work as well as expected. That stock 1.8 clutch assy/flywheel lasted only about 30K miles. The truth is that if you don't drive aggressively, the stock 1.8 clutch would last a long time...The same shop installed my new 1.8 Exedy Stage 1 clutch assy & flywheel. It should last a lot longer (I hope).

Quote:
I seriously doubt that. I seriously, seriously doubt that. You'd likely run rings around me on a track, I am just above average at clutch modulation from running a super-shitty Honda with the cheapest clutch I could find (which was a 4-puck) throughout high school and college.
No, you're better no doubt. I've been driving like forever but I'm no hot shoe. I did not have an easy time in Seattle on a couple of those hills in the rain and with the a-holes behind me right on my bumper... There was one particular moment that was pretty gruesome, broke the rear end loose and almost slid backwards... And that was with my worn out stock clutch...
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Old 01-21-2012, 08:34 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by silver92b View Post
No, you're better no doubt. I've been driving like forever but I'm no hot shoe. I did not have an easy time in Seattle on a couple of those hills in the rain and with the a-holes behind me right on my bumper... There was one particular moment that was pretty gruesome, broke the rear end loose and almost slid backwards... And that was with my worn out stock clutch...
Seattle drivers are ********. They aren't the worst I've been around (I can think of some drivers in CA as an example that make me go ><), but the terrain related to them just makes them unbearable.

Anyways, back on topic I guess:

Clutch disc advice, a 1.6 is fine if you properly size the pressure plate and clutch disc to your application. Silver92b gave a wonderful example, however, of why the inverse is true - you need to properly size the clutch to your application.

I'll personally be running a 1.6 ACT extreme organic kit on a ~9lb lightweight 1.6 flywheel. Silver gave some wonderful background on how critical it is to properly size your kit to your needs, and I'd recommend reading it over again OP.
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Old 01-22-2012, 03:25 PM   #18
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I read carefully the OP's question. Based On what he already has, I would be inclined to spend the $$ on a good carbon fiber clutch disc. I have heard (don't know from experience) that the Cusco and Exedy carbon fiber discs hold a lot of power and are easy to drive with. A warning though... I have not personally driven cars equipped with those clutches, so it's all hearsay. Personally, I find the organic high performance clutch kits are easier to drive and some can hold power very well.
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