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Old 05-13-2014, 05:13 PM   #1
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Default Comfort with big sways vs more springrate

So everything I've researched tells me big sways with less spring should be more comfortable for a daily driver.

But I'm hearing that if I go with softer springs, I should stick with softer sways, or the ride will be bad.

Comfort, daily driving. Performance is a secondary, but want to make sure I stay off the bump stops as much as possible.

Setup would be Gen2 XIDAs 450/300, 15x9 + 225 rivals, and some swaybars.

Was planning on the 1.25" front bar and 14-15mm rear, and a 4.5-5" ride height.

Does this seem like it should ride poorly? Worse than if I went with 550/350 springs and softer sways?

In before: My over 9000/800 springrates ride way better than the unloaded dump truck ride I had with Koni/bilstein/lowering springs/etc so go high spring rate.
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Old 05-13-2014, 08:52 PM   #2
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Bars that are too stiff bother me more than springs that are too stiff.
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Old 05-13-2014, 08:56 PM   #3
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I don't get it. Why would you get fat sticky tires on huge wheels if you're willing the cripple the performance of your car in the name of comfort?

That said, your swaybar choices seem reasonable and should be perfectly fine.
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Old 05-14-2014, 12:55 AM   #4
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Because fat sticky tires on a comfy suspension will generate more grip than skinny all seasons on the world's best suspension.
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Old 05-14-2014, 05:14 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC View Post
Bars that are too stiff bother me more than springs that are too stiff.
Why is that?

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I don't get it. Why would you get fat sticky tires on huge wheels if you're willing the cripple the performance of your car in the name of comfort?
Fail.
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:30 AM   #6
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I dont understand. 700/400 is going to work better for driving fast and is still going to be more comfortable than any other suspension you've ever experienced in a miata.
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Old 05-14-2014, 09:44 AM   #7
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9kg/6kg (504/336) rode fine for several years. This was on off the shelf Tein Flex as well. The poly bushings made it a little worse but still nothing I consider unbearable. Just don't replace the comfy stock seat with a Kirkey aluminum :P
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Old 05-14-2014, 09:48 AM   #8
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Or replace the moderate comfort stock seat with a gloriously comfortable kirkey.
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Old 05-14-2014, 10:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC View Post
Bars that are too stiff bother me more than springs that are too stiff.

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Why is that?
On uneven pavement with a lot of little bumps and undulations stiff bars seems to make the car subjectively more choppy. The car rocks and heaves. With stiff springs the ride can still be busy, but it seems more natural and easier to manage.

But, springs and bars are cheap. Try your proposed setup as well as some different combinations.

I do think the tires are too sticky for the springs. I mean, they'll work, but I think you end up with something that works better overall if everything is balanced. Start by deciding how much grip you want (tires) then use springs and bars to match.
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Old 05-14-2014, 10:36 AM   #10
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you will get on the bumpstops no matter what. even at 800 lb springs you get on the bumpstops with sticky street tires. On the street its a no brainer, bumps in the road will get you on the stops. especially at your expected ride height, you aren't exactly leaving a lot of space. Generally 4.5" and lower are used on track because the pavement is smooth.

I think your setup is fine, but I would run stiffer springs as they are probably more suited to the shock valving.
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Old 05-14-2014, 10:42 AM   #11
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Good dampers matched with the right springs makes the most difference to ride quality. Sways are nice for controlling body roll without adding too much more spring rate. I think your chosen setup will be fine for daily driving and the occasional autocross, but 15x9s can be a bit much for daily driving and your ride height is low so if your roads have problems then you'll be on the bumps no matter what. Do you have an NA or NB?
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Old 05-14-2014, 03:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
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I dont understand. 700/400 is going to work better for driving fast and is still going to be more comfortable than any other suspension you've ever experienced in a miata.
Except that if you looked at my signature, you'd see I already have XIDAs on my other car. They're 450/300. And given that they're on my car, I'm well aware of if I want to go stiffer or not. So no, I've experienced driving my other car. Repeatedly.

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Stiffer springs would be better for your grip level.
Yes. This was covered. Am aware.
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Old 05-14-2014, 03:15 PM   #13
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I thought the xidas listed in your sig were the ones being talked about.
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Old 05-14-2014, 03:20 PM   #14
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Nope. Another pair. I liked the first ones so much I'd like to get another. Just not sure what rates. Driving about on 450/300 is close to the limit of what I'd consider comfortable already, which is why I put 'in before' in the original post. I'd be raising up this car higher than the other to get additional travel before bumpstop though, 4.5-5" is about as high as XIDAs go.
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Old 05-14-2014, 03:25 PM   #15
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How are you even able to stand the stock suspension? My dad's miata which the idiot PO had a brand new set of showa's put in by the dealer recently is terrible. Way harsher and with way more cowl shake than the 700/400 or even the 850/505 xidas. You should check if your current setup is hitting the bump stops on just normal bumps, use the ziptie on the shock shaft test. If you are hitting the bump stops, stiffer springs would make the ride more comfortable. And try turning the shocks down to full soft or 1 click off full soft.

Also possible that you just got a shitty set of ASTs. Out of the people who have/had ASTs that I've met in actual person I have the only set that didnt leak and or suck horribly.
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Old 05-14-2014, 05:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
How are you even able to stand the stock suspension? My dad's miata which the idiot PO had a brand new set of showa's put in by the dealer recently is terrible. Way harsher and with way more cowl shake than the 700/400 or even the 850/505 xidas. You should check if your current setup is hitting the bump stops on just normal bumps, use the ziptie on the shock shaft test. If you are hitting the bump stops, stiffer springs would make the ride more comfortable. And try turning the shocks down to full soft or 1 click off full soft.

Also possible that you just got a shitty set of ASTs. Out of the people who have/had ASTs that I've met in actual person I have the only set that didnt leak and or suck horribly.
Can't really stand the stock suspension. Soft, vague, crashy, inconsistent, don't like it at all. Most aftermarket setups are even worse (pogo stick + crashy, somehow). The 01+ sport suspension was the best setup I've felt on a stock Miata. The XIDAs are probably just too low, when they're not bottoming out, the compliance and control together feels like the latest generation Cayman. Massive improvement over stock, I wouldn't call them shitty at all.
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Also possible that you just got a shitty set of ASTs. Out of the people who have/had ASTs that I've met in actual person I have the only set that didnt leak and or suck horribly.
Are you talking about non-xida ASTs?
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Old 05-14-2014, 11:25 PM   #18
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The best ride I had was on 400/275 Hard S shocks with the FM sways but I had to move up to the 550/350 setup as I got into stickier tires.
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Old 05-14-2014, 11:36 PM   #19
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Are you talking about non-xida ASTs?
Yeah. They seem to be super inconsistant and likely to get at least 1 sucky shock unless you bought them from emillio, BUT its possible a sucky set could have snuck through. The Tractive stuff the Gen 2 is based on has a better track record.
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Old 05-15-2014, 05:02 PM   #20
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On uneven pavement with a lot of little bumps and undulations stiff bars seems to make the car subjectively more choppy. The car rocks and heaves. With stiff springs the ride can still be busy, but it seems more natural and easier to manage.
This is rocking and heaving while driving on the freeway/interstate/highway? Or on surface streets? In straight lines or while turning, is what I'm getting at.

I know big sways can make going around bumps busy, for lack of a better term. Feels more like a thumpy Mustang rear end.
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