Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain discuss the wondrous effects of boost and your miata...
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Deceleration Rattling/Grinding sound

 
Old 05-27-2019, 05:05 PM
  #1  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 93
Total Cats: -6
Unhappy Deceleration Rattling/Grinding sound

First, I know this has been beat to death on miata.net, but I wanted to ask before I go throwing money at the problem. I will do my best to be as detailed and straight forward as possible in order to keep things simple.

I recently upgraded the clutch on my 2000 LS with 87k on the clock, to a Supermiata sport organic clutch kit. While doing this, I also installed a 6 speed that ended up being bad. With the 5 speed back in the car, I have the well documented deceleration noise (metallic rattling/grinding) between 3-4k in 2nd-4th gear. It can be heard slightly when accelerating as well. Im having trouble pinpointing what area of the car it is coming from. My wife thinks it is coming from the rear of the car, and I think she might be right. It should also be noted that I have a full aftermarket exhaust and thus no heat shields on the piping itself.

Here is the order in which I have done things:
  1. 5 speed out. Supermiata clutch kit + resurfaced stock flywheel and 6 speed in.
  2. 6 speed out due to excessive bearing noise. Checked for damage to clutch assembly and internal transmission damage, none found. 6 speed back in.
  3. 6 speed out due to horrible transmission noise in neutral. 5 speed back with Redline MT 90. PPF raised higher than before with jack, but not to spec.
  4. PPF aligned to spec, exhaust adjusted due to it contacting the subframe on turns and rough roads.
  5. Diff gear oil changed.
  6. PPF unaligned to natural droop (this actually puts the shifter when it was before the transmission was pulled the first time).
  7. PPF re-aligned to spec.
  8. PPF re-aligned.
My current guess is a failing diff, but like I said, I wanted to see what you all think before I go throwing money at the problem by having my 4.3 rebuilt or sourcing a 4.1.
atotalpro is offline  
Old 05-28-2019, 08:15 AM
  #2  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ATX
Posts: 161
Total Cats: 8
Default

The 5 speed can make some interesting noises. Do you have a torn shift boot that might be transmitting more NVH than before?
tyhackman15 is offline  
Old 05-28-2019, 08:21 AM
  #3  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 147
Total Cats: 13
Default

My 5 speed has always made noise like this, not really sure that it's something that can be fixed. My plan is to eventually turbo the car, upgrade the rods, and push the boost til the 5 speed fails, at which point I will swap in a 6 speed. Should solve that specific noise issue.
HowPrayGame is offline  
Old 05-28-2019, 09:12 AM
  #4  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 93
Total Cats: -6
Default

Originally Posted by tyhackman15 View Post
The 5 speed can make some interesting noises. Do you have a torn shift boot that might be transmitting more NVH than before?
My shift boot isn't in the best shape, and it is missing the plastic retaining ring. To be honest though, I can't imagine that any manner of insulation would block this sound.

Originally Posted by HowPrayGame View Post
My 5 speed has always made noise like this, not really sure that it's something that can be fixed. My plan is to eventually turbo the car, upgrade the rods, and push the boost til the 5 speed fails, at which point I will swap in a 6 speed. Should solve that specific noise issue.
Its amazing how widespread of an issue this is. There has to be a direct cause. Im planning to turbo my car as well, but I want to get all of the driveline and maintenance items sorted out first.
atotalpro is offline  
Old 05-28-2019, 10:32 AM
  #5  
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 6,100
Total Cats: 1,805
Default

If this is a B6 clutch kit and light flywheel, it's going to be pretty noisy. Not enough mass to dampen the vibrations that are always there. The BP kit has enough extra mass that noise is almost nil. Direct trade off in NVH for quicker revving.
__________________


www.facebook.com/SuperMiata

949RACING.COM Home of the 6UL wheel

.27 SNR
emilio700 is online now  
Old 05-28-2019, 10:39 AM
  #6  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: ATX
Posts: 161
Total Cats: 8
Default

Originally Posted by atotalpro View Post
Its amazing how widespread of an issue this is. There has to be a direct cause. Im planning to turbo my car as well, but I want to get all of the driveline and maintenance items sorted out first.
Something making a sound =/= an issue. We've been trained to believe this though, reading through all the threads of engine noise when DI became popular is great. "is this knock" "my new motor is ticking what's wrong" etc etc.
tyhackman15 is offline  
Old 05-28-2019, 10:48 AM
  #7  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 93
Total Cats: -6
Default

Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
If this is a B6 clutch kit and light flywheel, it's going to be pretty noisy. Not enough mass to dampen the vibrations that are always there. The BP kit has enough extra mass that noise is almost nil. Direct trade off in NVH for quicker revving.
Its a BP kit with a stock flywheel.
atotalpro is offline  
Old 05-28-2019, 10:54 AM
  #8  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 93
Total Cats: -6
Default

Originally Posted by tyhackman15 View Post
Something making a sound =/= an issue. We've been trained to believe this though, reading through all the threads of engine noise when DI became popular is great. "is this knock" "my new motor is ticking what's wrong" etc etc.
I generally understand this. Its the fact that the alarming metal on metal noise appeared after I changed something that concerns me. Also, the fact that I can't pinpoint where it is coming from.

Last edited by atotalpro; 05-28-2019 at 10:55 AM. Reason: Edit: unable to pinpoint location
atotalpro is offline  
Old 05-28-2019, 11:12 AM
  #9  
afm
Senior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 838
Total Cats: 298
Default

Did you set your PPF height correctly when you installed the trans that’s currently in the car?
afm is offline  
Old 05-28-2019, 11:16 AM
  #10  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 93
Total Cats: -6
Default

Originally Posted by afm View Post
Did you set your PPF height correctly when you installed the trans thatís currently in the car?
Not the first time I installed this current transmission, but I set it to spec later on. No noticeable change in noise when I did so. I will say my frame rails are pretty beat up, so it was difficult to find a place to measure from.
atotalpro is offline  
Old 05-28-2019, 11:30 AM
  #11  
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 19,045
Total Cats: 2,396
Default

Put car on lift or securely on 4 jack stands and get beneath it with a mechanic's stethoscope and attempt to recreate the noise. Pinpoint it and stop guessing.
sixshooter is offline  
Old 05-28-2019, 05:39 PM
  #12  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 93
Total Cats: -6
Default

Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Put car on lift or securely on 4 jack stands and get beneath it with a mechanic's stethoscope and attempt to recreate the noise. Pinpoint it and stop guessing.
I think the sound is the result of it being under load. The load being the drag of the engine against wheel speed. Kind of hard to re-create on a lift. I'll also admit driving the wheels with the car in the air makes me uncomfortable as is, being under it... no thank you.

Last edited by atotalpro; 05-28-2019 at 05:40 PM. Reason: spelling
atotalpro is offline  
Old 05-28-2019, 08:40 PM
  #13  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Tampa FL
Posts: 147
Total Cats: 13
Default

You can take the rear wheels off for less of a risk of the car falling. Use 2 jackstands under the jack pinch welds, 2 jacks under the control arms, and a jack under the diff. 3 points of failure, no wheels to knock/hit anything, and you should be fine. Would also help determine if taking weight off/the wheels off has anything to do with the noise.
HowPrayGame is offline  
Old 05-29-2019, 09:40 AM
  #14  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 367
Total Cats: 32
Default

Originally Posted by atotalpro View Post
I think the sound is the result of it being under load. The load being the drag of the engine against wheel speed. Kind of hard to re-create on a lift. I'll also admit driving the wheels with the car in the air makes me uncomfortable as is, being under it... no thank you.
Come on. If De Niro can do it in Cape Fear, so can you.
Supe is online now  
Old 05-29-2019, 10:13 AM
  #15  
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 19,045
Total Cats: 2,396
Default

Remove the wheels if you wish. Make sure it is secure, of course. I always bump the car to ensure stability as soon as I set it on stands. Don't put stands under moveable parts.

If a load is required, have your assistant add some e-brake drag one click at a time while holding the necessary rpm. This isn't rocket science.
sixshooter is offline  
Old 05-29-2019, 02:51 PM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: NorthWest NJ
Posts: 1,471
Total Cats: 71
Default

Mine has made this noise on decel for the last 20k miles with no changes. Though I have the 13lb FM1 happy meal. I am electing to ignore it, just like the straight cut gear sounds it makes.
x_25 is offline  
Old 05-29-2019, 02:55 PM
  #17  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 93
Total Cats: -6
Default

Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Remove the wheels if you wish. Make sure it is secure, of course. I always bump the car to ensure stability as soon as I set it on stands. Don't put stands under moveable parts.

If a load is required, have your assistant add some e-brake drag one click at a time while holding the necessary rpm. This isn't rocket science.
I might give this a go this weekend. I have a set of quick jacks, so thats probably better than jack stands, at least.

Originally Posted by x_25 View Post
Mine has made this noise on decel for the last 20k miles with no changes. Though I have the 13lb FM1 happy meal. I am electing to ignore it, just like the straight cut gear sounds it makes.
I'm going to try and post a video later. Im curious to see if we have the same noise. Im coming to the realization that I probably need to just live with it. If the diff goes, then i'll just get a 4.1, if the trans goes, then i'll be glad I only have a 5 speed lol.
atotalpro is offline  
Old 05-30-2019, 09:36 AM
  #18  
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 93
Total Cats: -6
Default

I haven't had a chance to put the car up on the lift yet, but I found this thread on another forum and wanted some more insight. https://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/index....owtopic=101863

Basically, one user asks about the decel noise and another user chimes in with the idea the pinion nut might have backed out and the pinion is coming in contact with the differential itself. Apparently this actually happened to this user, and he had pictures to prove it. I thought this was interesting and might actually make sense given my symptoms.

On page 03-14-10 of the factory service manual, it discusses the procedure for tightening the pinion lock nut in terms of pre-load adjustment and tightening torque. I am a bit confused and to be honest, and no nothing about setting up a diff. Can I just take a torque wrench and set it to the tightening torque range to ensure or is there more to this procedure, as the manual makes it seem.
atotalpro is offline  
 
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
CHUNKYBOWSER
General Miata Chat
0
12-30-2015 10:49 AM
Starsky
MEGAsquirt
1
06-13-2009 12:17 PM
Dow.tom
General Miata Chat
7
12-15-2007 06:55 PM
beerslurpy
DIY Turbo Discussion
3
01-15-2007 01:24 AM
kotomile
General Miata Chat
4
01-12-2007 10:51 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Deceleration Rattling/Grinding sound


Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.