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Old 12-17-2009, 02:36 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by SolarYellow510 View Post
My first setup with brakes will be my current wheels with whatever spacer I need, if any. I'll make a template and send it to my friends at Tire Rack to see what wheels they have that fit (which will include this one by then). Unfortunately, Emilio's template doesn't come close to clearing my caliper/rotor combo, so 9s are out.

My idea of the ultimate Miata brake setup would cost more than $2000, using parts from Wilwood, Hawk, PFC, Earl's, plus some custom bits I'd have to get made, and would be challenging for wheel fit. Everything less than that is a compromise for lower cost. But I believe that what I'm doing will have lower initial cost than a Wilwood kit, as well as lower replacement parts cost, and deliver better performance.
The brake kit I made myself cost less than a Goodwin kit it has bigger rotors both front and rear, better calipers with 50% more front pad life fits in allot of 15" wheels and has no problem with track braking performance on my 350+ hp track car doing laps several seconds below spec miata lap records on all the tracks I have been to.

I have cracked Corrado rotors on dynalight setups, even cracked rear rotors before, even killed new pads in a single day at the track. the setup I have now lasts many track days on the same set of pads.

Having said that If I wanted to be fast I would ditch my brake setup to fit 9” wheels instead of 8” if I had to. The 9” are that much better. I tried them back to back and was significantly faster by more than a second on the 9” with the virtually identically worn 225 RA-1’s

Bob
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Old 12-17-2009, 03:01 AM   #22
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I have cracked Corrado rotors on dynalight setups, even cracked rear rotors before, even killed new pads in a single day at the track. the setup I have now lasts many track days on the same set of pads.

Bob
That makes me really want to invest in brakes right there. It probably wouldn't take much time to add up the money spent on cracked rotors and burnt up pads to justify your investment. I'll likely be copying your setup someday. Most probably the next thing I do after upgrading my suspension/chassis rigidity. Not increasing my power any more until I have better brakes...
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Old 12-17-2009, 01:49 PM   #23
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So far, Enkei USA does not know what the wheels weigh. Their tack is to wait until the wheel actually arrive at the end of January so they can be weighed here. Enkei's marketing material states a goal of being lighter than the small inner diameter (~13") design RPF1 but that is impossible with a full inner diameter PF01. I'm guessing the 15x8 PF01 will weigh about what a 6UL weighs or a bit heavier, have similar brake clearance and cost about $50 more.

For our own 15x7 and 15x7.5 6UL in development, we have followed Enkei's idea of reducing brake clearance to lighten the wheel. My reasoning is that anybody that is truly running out brakes with a 15x7, should be running 15x8's or 15x9's anyway. So the bigger sizes get the BBK room.

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15x8, +35 et. Hoping there's more caliper clearance than with 6UL, because Emilio's stuff doesn't fit what I want to do. Looks like there should be.
As Bob mentioned, there is plenty of brake clearance with a 6UL. We designed that in from the beginning.

15x8 6UL will clear a Wilwood Dynalite 4 piston on an 11" rotor (Goodwin BBK)
15x9 6UL will clear a Wilwood Dynapro 6 piston on an 11.75" rotor (V8R BBK)

Bob's DP6/11.75" set up is a modified Mini set up IIRC, a bit more offset than the V8R probably.

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Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post
There is a thread on miata.net where Emillio goes over how they make all their light weight wheels out of a 13" blank and add to the actual rim to get a bigger size. I doubt that what you have planned will work with this wheel.
As Modernbeat mentions, that refers to the RPF1, not this new PF01
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Old 12-17-2009, 02:14 PM   #24
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That makes me really want to invest in brakes right there. It probably wouldn't take much time to add up the money spent on cracked rotors and burnt up pads to justify your investment. I'll likely be copying your setup someday. Most probably the next thing I do after upgrading my suspension/chassis rigidity. Not increasing my power any more until I have better brakes...
I will say that early on in my learning curve about track driving I was a lot harder on brakes initially. Iím definitely easier on the brakes than I was 5 years ago I think. Some of the fear of death if I donít slow down more entering corners has gone away and a better sense of the proper amount of brake usage has immerged.

Bob
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Old 12-18-2009, 02:28 AM   #25
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My reasoning is that anybody that is truly running out of brakes with a 15x7, should be running 15x8's or 15x9's anyway. So the bigger sizes get the BBK room.

As Bob mentioned, there is plenty of brake clearance with a 6UL. We designed that in from the beginning.
When I was looking into your wheels a year ago, they all had the same inner profile. And I would have needed a really fat spacer to clear the brakes I'm talking about. The spokes start by being thin when looking at the face, taking up a lot of space in cross section, rather than being flat and having a thin cross section like a TE37 or Rota Slip (yes, I did just put them in the same category, but just for general shape concept, not any other idea of equivalence). Second, the lip is deeper than it needs to be, causing the spokes to taper inboard, reducing caliper clearance at the outer diameter where it is likely to be needed most. I can understand an argument for strength having the spokes meet closer to the middle of the barrel, but it's still the case that a wheel with the basic diameter, width and offset you're providing could be made with significantly more caliper clearance, especially in the wider sizes. Clearing a Wilwood caliper on a 0.810-in/20.6mm thick rotor doesn't mean much in my world. Because Wilwood is kind of a standard in the markets your wheels serve, you designed for them, and excluded your product from being used by someone who wants to do better than typical Wilwood apps on brakes. At least that's the way I see it. I seem to be the only one with that opinion, though.

I just went to your site to see if anything had changed, and it didn't appear to be any different. What you posted above suggests you're going to have different profiles in some new products. What's up?
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Old 12-18-2009, 02:57 AM   #26
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Because Wilwood is kind of a standard in the markets your wheels serve, you designed for them, and excluded your product from being used by someone who wants to do better than typical Wilwood apps on brakes. At least that's the way I see it. I seem to be the only one with that opinion, though.
Yup, you're the only one complaining that we didn't design enough custom OEM caliper/big rotor kit clearance into the 6UL.

I designed the wheel to fit the largest existing Miata big brake kits that actually work, in this case the Goodwin BBK. The MPCA (Winner Pro), Baer, Brembo, Ksport kits for the Miata are all basically oversizes, underfunctioning street bling so I ignored them. Since then, some of us have found that the fastest Miatas do actually need 11.75 rotors and 6 pot calipers, so you can run spacers with 8's on a Miata or 9's without spacers. I have no plans to design a wheel around OEM cast steel calipers on oversize low offset rotors for the Miata, sorry.

Regarding the narrower wheels, they just need to be light, they don't need the same brake clearance as the 8's. The guys that complain the 7's won't clear BBK's should be running 8's if they are genuinely in need of more braking. The remaning 99% of 15x7 buyers just want the lightest wheel that will fit their stock brakes.
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Old 12-18-2009, 04:31 AM   #27
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Burn.
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:00 AM   #28
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The MPCA (Winner Pro), Baer, Brembo, Ksport kits for the Miata are all basically oversized, underfunctioning street bling so I ignored them.
From your keyboard to God's ears.

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I have no plans to design a wheel around OEM cast steel calipers on oversize low offset rotors for the Miata, sorry.
If that's the direction you think I'm going...
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:07 AM   #29
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Why keep it a big secret? This thread is retarded everyone is just guessing to try to help you, why make a thread? I'm about to put you on the global ignore...
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Old 12-18-2009, 12:02 PM   #30
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Lots of 6UL jealousy in here. You peasants need to get wheels and be a man for the first time in your life. Now please excuse my while I spread Beluga caviar over my California Condor scrambled eggs and Brioche.
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Old 12-18-2009, 02:36 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Yup, you're the only one complaining that we didn't design enough custom OEM caliper/big rotor kit clearance into the 6UL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolarYellow510 View Post
If that's the direction you think I'm going...
"I'm planning an OE caliper with thicker pads, dust boots, and a thicker cross section for greater stiffness. Probably a 282mm rotor, a little smaller than 11.75 in., but thicker and lower-cost."

Let us know if the PF01 works for your top secret DIY big rotor kit.
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Old 12-18-2009, 03:18 PM   #32
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FWIW, I know the OP and he knows brakes like few people I've ever met. Whatever brake package he's working up is likely to be comprehensively impressive, that much I know.
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:47 PM   #33
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Whats the actual weight of these? 13 lbs?
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Old 01-26-2010, 02:10 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by SolarYellow510 View Post
Number of pistons doesn't really affect wheel fit. Wilwood calipers tend to be pretty thin in section, with short pistons, thin pads and no dust boots. I'm planning an OE caliper with thicker pads, dust boots, and a thicker cross section for greater stiffness. Probably a 282mm rotor, a little smaller than 11.75 in., but thicker and lower-cost. It'll be cool.
Wilwoods calipers can be ordered with dust seals.
Thin pads and short pistons ,go hand in hand.

What OE caliper? Hopefully something AL :P

Last edited by Eadohcturbo; 01-26-2010 at 02:23 AM.
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Old 01-26-2010, 02:36 AM   #35
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FWIW, I know the OP and he knows brakes like few people I've ever met. Whatever brake package he's working up is likely to be comprehensively impressive, that much I know.
In for overstock f1 brake crap.
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Old 01-26-2010, 02:39 AM   #36
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What OE caliper? Hopefully a Brembo atleast...
Actually, I have no love for that brand, mainly on account of certain people connected with their aftermarket distribution channel. At any company I've worked for, if someone got banned from as many forums for being a complete jackass as one of their sales guys has, he wouldn't still work there. The fact that he does still work there says the boss wants it that way. The people I have met who work directly for BNA mostly seem pretty cool, and some are good friends.

Just to note, Nissan kicked Brembo to the curb for the latest round of Z/G four-piston calipers. Nissin, Sumitomo and Akebono all make nice OE stuff.

The Brembo race stuff is nice, but too expensive for a Miata.

My stuff will be cheap x good. And yes, I'm keeping it to myself until it's running.
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Old 01-26-2010, 02:43 AM   #37
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well, keep us posted Eli...
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Old 01-26-2010, 09:13 AM   #38
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I want to take a moment to let you guys know that all your stuff sucks and you're **** so I'm going to make something 10x better...but it's super secret so I can't talk about it. I also have a pretty sweet trophy rack that not only blows away your rack, but your mothers sit on one shelf, well their likenesses from a few years ago before the slampigs turned into leather bags.
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Old 01-26-2010, 03:08 PM   #39
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well, keep us posted Eli...
That's what I suspected as well, but he's not posting from Dade county (or anywhere near it).

Uncanny resemblance, though.

Gotta wonder how many lead-acid batteries he's got stuffed into this EV conversion of his that none of the traditional big-brake kits are adequate...
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Old 01-26-2010, 04:27 PM   #40
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well, keep us posted Eli...
I wasn't sure if this was what I thought it was. Bravo.

I've never been a big fan of solving problems that don't exist. You can design the best brakes in the world, but if you know anything about brakes (and I presume you do) then you also know that they don't make race cars faster. If your brakes are better than the current crop, but they don't fit under the best wheel and tire package, then it's an exercise in futility.

Regardless, I look forward to seeing what you produce, even if there's no reasonable application for it.
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