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Old 05-03-2016, 12:36 PM   #1
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Default fab9 act xtss vs FM level 2

Replacing the clutch as part of the overhaul, as the 14 year old six puck is pretty much worn out. It's a mystery clutch, no idea who manufactured it. I got it off a friend (that I haven't seen in 10+ years) who blew up his turbo miata project and sold me his parts. I have theorized that maybe it is an old exedy with a repaint (it's red) or maybe a chinese knockoff. It took a ton of abuse and held up for a surprisingly long time. Rather than try mixing and matching friction material with whatever pressure plate this is, I'm going to spend more than 100 dollars this time and buy a name brand. I'm going for a disk instead of a 6 puck this time.

Going to go with either an FM stage 2 or an XTSS from fab9. FM would have been my first choice but is apparently out of stock for the next month due to searching for a new manufacturer for throwout bearings.

Any thoughts as to the difference between the two clutches? They are both roughly 400 bucks.
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Old 05-03-2016, 01:37 PM   #2
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This is relevant to my interest. I fear that the FM wouldn't hold my power after e85/flex, but looks to be completely suitable for pump gas. They haven't responded to my email inquiry I sent 4 days ago when questioning their statement saying it's rated for 353 ft/lb when I'm already seeing 344ft/lb to the wheels:
Quote:
"It's probably stronger than the transmission, and we have not yet met a 4-cylinder Miata that can make it slip."
I don't want to invest money without knowing for sure....

I know a lot of folks will just say ACT or twin disk, but man I could use some less chatter in my life. waning off a 6 puck sprung comp clutch stg 4. May end up just biting the bullet and going with the ZM2-XTG6 even though it looks out of stock everywhere
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Old 05-03-2016, 02:39 PM   #3
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I have a FM2 and here are my few cents.

I don't know how much exactly I'm making as far as power (probably 250-275 pump gas), but it was enough to cause the stock MSM clutch with less than 20k miles to slip under power on the freeway. Couldn't decide between the FM1 and FM2, but figured what the heck, might as well get the stronger one just in case.

As far as a street clutch, it works great. Super smooth, predicable, progressive, everything that you'd expect for a street clutch.

It's only con is that it is HEAVY. I'm not a ***** and you get used to it, but it's probably 2-3x heaver than stock. It's heavier than the Z06 clutch in my dads C6. After 2 years with it, I kinda wish I would have gotten the FM1, SoCal freeways/rush hour. But I love that I'll never have to worry about it.

No experience with Fab 9s clutch, but figured I could help a little.
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Old 05-03-2016, 02:42 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slmhofy View Post
I have a FM2 and here are my few cents.

I don't know how much exactly I'm making as far as power (probably 250-275 pump gas), but it was enough to cause the stock MSM clutch with less than 20k miles to slip under power on the freeway. Couldn't decide between the FM1 and FM2, but figured what the heck, might as well get the stronger one just in case.

As far as a street clutch, it works great. Super smooth, predicable, progressive, everything that you'd expect for a street clutch.

It's only con is that it is HEAVY. I'm not a ***** and you get used to it, but it's probably 2-3x heaver than stock. It's heavier than the Z06 clutch in my dads C6. After 2 years with it, I kinda wish I would have gotten the FM1, SoCal freeways/rush hour. But I love that I'll never have to worry about it.

No experience with Fab 9s clutch, but figured I could help a little.

Thanks for the experience. Fab9 doesn't make the clutch, they are just a distributor like summit or Amazon or eBay or whomever sells ACT products.

I need to try a stock clutch to understand this baseline
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Old 05-03-2016, 02:51 PM   #5
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I have used a FM2 for the past 5 years. Yes it is far heavier then the stock clutch or an FM1, but it is way easier to use then any 4 or 6 puck ACT clutches I have tried in the miata. In all honesty it is slightly stiffer then the ACT ZM2-HDSS that I ran before it. Driving it in stop and go traffic can be annoying, but it is very tolerable.
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Old 05-03-2016, 03:36 PM   #6
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I guess my real question is "is there any reason I should wait until later this month to get the FM clutch or just get the XDSS now?"

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Old 05-03-2016, 05:06 PM   #7
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Wow. Odd to see a sentiment about the FM2 being heavy. Polar opposite of my experience.

I went from:
-OE Stock
-Clutchnet "Modified" exedy OE replacement Pressure plate (supposed 30% more holding) - Felt ever so sliiiiightly heavier feel than stock.
-FM2 -again, barely noticeably heavier than stock. A bit, but not much. I noticed the much shorter engagement window more than pedal pressure.

Never had an issue with getting tired in stop and go traffic for hours. Clutch holds great too with my ~250wtq right now. Will see how it goes when I start pushing over 300wtq.

I will say the FM2 is about half as heavy a clutch as my Jeep TJ clutch, and no where close to the pedal effort in a friends ACT Xtreme equipped Sti (apples to oranges 100%) .

EDIT : No experience with XDSS in a miata, so my $0.02 is more or less worthless.
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Old 05-03-2016, 05:11 PM   #8
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ITT. People who need to lift.

And chooofoojoo. (Girlfriend drove my twin disc the other day and commented that it was lighter than her jeep tj clutch)
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Old 05-03-2016, 05:13 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
And chooofoojoo. (Girlfriend drove my twin disc the other day and commented that it was lighter than her jeep tj clutch)
Jeep TJ clutch is my reference point for "OE clutch". I thought my miata's clutch was broke because it was so soft.

I should have twin-disc'd.
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Old 05-03-2016, 05:14 PM   #10
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My first manual vehicle was a 72' F100. Foot went through the floor the first time I drove my miata.

Wait for the organic to be available again then go for it. She hasn't driven it in traffic yet, but she didn't kill it in parking lot driving, which is better than the other 5 people (including myself) did.
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Old 05-03-2016, 05:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
My first manual vehicle was a 72' F100. Foot went through the floor the first time I drove my miata.

Wait for the organic to be available again then go for it. She hasn't driven it in traffic yet, but she didn't kill it in parking lot driving, which is better than the other 5 people (including myself) did.

Put a ring on her
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Old 05-03-2016, 05:23 PM   #12
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Lol, come over to my build thread, its been discussed recently
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Old 05-03-2016, 07:07 PM   #13
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The stock clutch is too light, I always thought it was broken. I love the XT pressure plate and would want nothing less in terms of feel. Its still lighter than most every clutch I have driven. My wife has no issue with it Once the ceramic 6 puck broke in, it was not shuddery or overly grabby, nor does it require a whole lot of attention IMO. I never do stop and go in the car fwiw, freeway and track only.

Aidan keeps spending his money on toys.
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Old 05-03-2016, 07:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Lol, come over to my build thread, its been discussed recently
Link? Which build thread is yours?
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Old 05-03-2016, 07:30 PM   #15
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Old 05-03-2016, 11:00 PM   #16
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I've used a FM clutch in my car for 2 seasons of racing. That included ~ 180 Pro Solo launches in the 380-400hp range on 275mm wide tires.

When I pulled the motor out this winter the clutch disk looked fine. I could have used it again...but I wasn't putting a used disk back in there when a replacement disk is only like $150 bucks.
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Old 05-03-2016, 11:03 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Link? Which build thread is yours?
Lol. You're new here huh?
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Old 05-04-2016, 02:37 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Lol. You're new here huh?
I used to post here in the mid 2000s IIRC but I stopped for a while (like maybe 8 years?) because life happened. It was kind of weird coming back and everyone was like "oil pumps explode" which wasn't a thing back in the day.
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Old 05-05-2016, 03:44 PM   #19
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Cheap replacement disks plus the ability to tolerate 400whp on slicks without signs of wear after several racing seasons sounds like my cup of tea. Guess FM level 2 is the way to go.
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Old 05-05-2016, 03:46 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysBroken View Post
Cheap replacement disks plus the ability to tolerate 400whp on slicks without signs of wear after several racing seasons sounds like my cup of tea. Guess FM level 2 is the way to go.
This data point definitely helped me. But what torque?
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