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Full-face clutch?

 
Old 03-09-2019, 02:53 PM
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Default Full-face clutch?

Wondering if any of you are running full face clutches on turbo builds surpassing 300 ft lbs. I was considering swapping to a 6 puck sprung ceramic for obvious perks.. But on the other hand I would like a long lasting idiot proof clutch.

Will be using it for more street than track driving. It will be drifted but will not see too many hot laps. Soooo I was thinking a full face wouldn't be a bad option if it can hold the torque.

I know FM has the happy meal which is really nice. I honestly am kinda sold on that, besides the fact that I will have to pay like 150% of the price to get it shipped and imported to the EU. I'm kinda trying to find a good clutch from European sellers that has similar specs but so many don't even state an approximate torque rating.

Thoughts, experiences, Reccomendations?
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Old 03-09-2019, 03:05 PM
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These are just my experiences :

Competition Clutch 6 puck stage 4 clutch was hot garbage and sucked for driveability.

FM Level 2 clutch felt awesome in street. Just don't believe their claim that no 4 cylinder miata has slipped it. It slips over 375wtq. Held at 350hp/344tq

Supermiata twin disk holds the power, it's not as comfortable as the FM, but worlds better than the 6 puck. You adjust quick and it's totally fine on street.


Overall I just wish the FM held together. That was my favorite. All these clutches mentioned are manufactured by Competition Clutch. Follow the clutch adjustment procedures completely to ensure a longer life.
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Old 03-11-2019, 06:13 AM
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ACT XTSS holds over 300 no problem and engages smoothly.
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Old 03-12-2019, 08:36 PM
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My custom ACT/South Bend combo did 452whp/427wtq on the dyno and 415/385 on the street for ~3500 miles without slipping once. Full face sprung organic/feramic South bend disc, drove nicer than the stock ACT disc did.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:33 AM
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I just recently moved from an organic full faced disk to a sprung hub 6 puck.

Still too soon to tell if it will last longer than the overpowered full face disk I was using but so far I am blown away by the driveability. If I hadn't known it was a pucked clutch....I wouldn't have been able to tell.
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:16 AM
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I'm only running 220ish ft-lbs but the feel and drivability of the FM Stage 2 is great.
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by TNTUBA View Post
I just recently moved from an organic full faced disk to a sprung hub 6 puck.

Still too soon to tell if it will last longer than the overpowered full face disk I was using but so far I am blown away by the driveability. If I hadn't known it was a pucked clutch....I wouldn't have been able to tell.
What clutch and setup is this?
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Old 03-13-2019, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
My custom ACT/South Bend combo did 452whp/427wtq on the dyno and 415/385 on the street for ~3500 miles without slipping once. Full face sprung organic/feramic South bend disc, drove nicer than the stock ACT disc did.
Care to share more? Is this something that you or South Bend plan to release as a product at some point?
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by HarryB View Post
Care to share more? Is this something that you or South Bend plan to release as a product at some point?
It started as an off-the-shelf ACT XT, and then the disc was sent to South Bend/DXD to be redone in their material. It was a heavy-duty Organic on the PP side and their Feramic material on the flywheel side. The idea is that you would slip against the organic side only when taking off in traffic, but the feramic side would grab hard under high torque or fast shifts. It worked exactly as expected. Driveability was better than the standard ACT disc, less chatter and better modulation. IIRC South Bend claims a 30% increase in torque rating going from a standard organic/organic to the organic/feramic, which put the rating somewhere in the 390-400wtq range. I exceeded that briefly on the dyno without issues, and then DDed the car at those torque levels for a few months until the tranny shredded itself.

IOW, it held monster torque and drove like a dream. It also cost a fortune and did not last very long (the organic side wear after 3500 miles indicated the disc would go maybe 10k miles between disc replacements).

It's perfect if you need a streetable BP-platform clutch that will handle 425wtq without any issues, but that's, erm, nobody
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 03-13-2019, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
It's perfect if you need a streetable BP-platform clutch that will handle 425wtq without any issues, but that's, erm, nobody
But dude, I'm totally going to build a 600hp Miata just as soon as I find the best price on some Raceland coilovers.
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Old 03-13-2019, 02:32 PM
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But you're only going to do a stock rebuild first. Those coil overs are important.
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Old 03-13-2019, 05:24 PM
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Thanks for the interesting info guys. Probably going for the ACT xtss + act prolite flywheel. The Extreme pressure plate with a simple full face organic seems to be enough for the stock 6 speed limitations great! The set will still cost me € 900+ as far as I can tell. About the same as the happy meal with shipping and expensive taxes to get to the EU.

If ever going crazy power swapping gearbox I don't think anyone would mind to go full racecar on the clutch too..
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Old 03-13-2019, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
It started as an off-the-shelf ACT XT, and then the disc was sent to South Bend/DXD to be redone in their material. It was a heavy-duty Organic on the PP side and their Feramic material on the flywheel side. The idea is that you would slip against the organic side only when taking off in traffic, but the feramic side would grab hard under high torque or fast shifts. It worked exactly as expected. Driveability was better than the standard ACT disc, less chatter and better modulation. IIRC South Bend claims a 30% increase in torque rating going from a standard organic/organic to the organic/feramic, which put the rating somewhere in the 390-400wtq range. I exceeded that briefly on the dyno without issues, and then DDed the car at those torque levels for a few months until the tranny shredded itself.

IOW, it held monster torque and drove like a dream. It also cost a fortune and did not last very long (the organic side wear after 3500 miles indicated the disc would go maybe 10k miles between disc replacements).

It's perfect if you need a streetable BP-platform clutch that will handle 425wtq without any issues, but that's, erm, nobody
Souf Bend is good people. I've had a half dozen or so of their clutches. The last one was rated at 575ftlbs and was perfectly easy to drive in traffic. Was pretty wild.
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Old 03-13-2019, 06:41 PM
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So apparently Flyin' Miata was a bit optimistic with the holding capacity of their Level 1 clutch, so I am out shopping for a replacement. Basically narrowed it down to the Supermiata Sprung Puck (based on a call to them) or the ACT XTSS. Based on what I am reading the SPM will have a lighter pedal but more abrupt engagement, and the ACT is heavier but smoother. I don't suppose anybody has direct experience with both?

Less concerned about me, and more concerned about my wife (who will be doing a couple track days this summer in the car) and which one might be a better fit. Built 1.8 with EFR 6258 on pump gas, can't tell you the power because dyno tuning day was supposed to be tomorrow but my ******* "holds 318 ft/lbs!" clutch is slipping at 8.5 psi. Leaning towards SPM because it's significantly less expensive, but concerned about modulation.
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Old 03-13-2019, 06:44 PM
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No experiences but from what I can tell you should go with the XTSS for your application and tell your wife it's leg day
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by dleavitt View Post
So apparently Flyin' Miata was a bit optimistic with the holding capacity of their Level 1 clutch, so I am out shopping for a replacement. Basically narrowed it down to the Supermiata Sprung Puck (based on a call to them) or the ACT XTSS. Based on what I am reading the SPM will have a lighter pedal but more abrupt engagement, and the ACT is heavier but smoother. I don't suppose anybody has direct experience with both?

Less concerned about me, and more concerned about my wife (who will be doing a couple track days this summer in the car) and which one might be a better fit. Built 1.8 with EFR 6258 on pump gas, can't tell you the power because dyno tuning day was supposed to be tomorrow but my ******* "holds 318 ft/lbs!" clutch is slipping at 8.5 psi. Leaning towards SPM because it's significantly less expensive, but concerned about modulation.
No way a FM1 in good conditions would slip at 8.5 PSI. I'm @ 18PSI and tracking it no problem and more on the street. Try pedal adjustment.
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:10 PM
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8.7psi, to be fair. Ironically I was just browsing this thread after chatting with you Don.

I would lean towards the ACT XTSS only because it's a full face disc. Supermiata is going to suggest the puck version, and rightly so, only because that's their only option in the 300+ ft/lb range. You could also consider an FM2 which I've loved in the past, but the car I was driving wasn't turbocharged.

For reference:
ACT XTSS: 271 and then some ft/lbs
FM2: 353 ft/lbs
SM puck: 340 ft/lbs
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:51 PM
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I have DDed an HD with a sprung 6-puck and the XT with a full-face organic. Both clutches rated right around 300tq. You cope with the HDG6, you get used to the XTSS. For a hi-power street car, I'd buy an XTSS again without reservation.

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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I have DDed an HD with a sprung 6-puck and the XT with a full-face organic. Both clutches rated right around 300tq. The XT is heavy but you get used to it. For a hi-power street car, I'd buy it again.

ACT 1.8L Clutch Kit
Thanks for the feedback, this is the direction I'm going to go. Just frustrating to do a job twice.
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:18 PM
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My 100lb wife had no problem with the XTSS. It is no problem.
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